UK 2019 GT Manual - Dragstrip woes

[cib24]

I attended the first public drag day at Santa Pod in the UK today, 23 Feb, and I've come home having learned so much and also creating several relevant questions to try and figure out how to improve next Sunday, 1 March.

Drag racing isn't a huge thing here in the UK and I only have 1,500 miles on my 2019 GT. However, despite this fact and despite having never launched the car on the public road before this day I was really looking forward to going to the strip and seeing what I could do in this car.

How hard could it be? Plus, it's a Mustang GT and should run mid 12s all day even with a novice!

For those that don't know the EU/UK spec GTs are basically PP1 cars but with the following differences:

444hp/390 lb ft. vs. 460hp/420 lb ft in the USA

3.55 trac-lok vs. 3.73 Torsen in the USA

I had four runs today given it rained in the morning and the track didn't dry out until about 1pm. The temp was about 11C (52 F), headwind of about 20-23 mph for the first 2 runs (12-15 mph for the last 2), and elevation at Santa Pod is only about 350 feet.

My 2019 GT is a 6-speed manual with Magneride, and I figured I'd put the car in drag mode, do a little 2 second dusting of the tyres, stage, launch around 2500-3000 RPM, avoid using launch control, and I'd be on my way to a high 12 second pass.

Well, my best pass today was my 3rd pass. A terrible 13.8 @ 108.5 mph with a 2.35 60 foot. Every other pass was basically 14.0 @ 108.0-109.6 mph with 2.6-2.7 60 foot times.

My first 2 passes were a complete write-off. I thought Drag Mode disabled traction control and the ESC. It was definitely clear on my second pass that it certainly did not. On both runs whether launching at 2500 or 4000 RPM the car immediately bogged down to 1200 RPM and didn't give me full power at all in 1st gear, and only gave it to me in 2nd gear.

After the 2nd pass I figured out that traction control needed to be manually disabled. On my 3rd pass I skipped the water box entirely and didn't even dust the tyres off. Just staged at 2500 RPM and slipped the clutch. The initial bite was okay but about 2 seconds later the car just started lightly wheel hopping and getting worse as the RPMs rose. I couldn't even give full throttle and had to shift early into 2nd at 5500 RPM to stabilise the car.

On the 4th run I thought I'd try a little dusting of the tyres, and launch around 1200 RPM and try to take off as if from a traffic light slightly aggressively. Unfortunately, right around 2500-3000 RPM in 1st after the granny launch (2.7 60 foot) the car hopped really bad and I lifted before 5000 RPM to shift into 2nd and once again get some traction.

I'm going back next Sunday but launching this car is far more difficult than I expected. I don't have any time to buy IRS bracing or stickier tyres than the PS4S that are on the car, so what tips can the community provide?

The car can trap around 109 mph and with a really good 60 foot and no 1st gear traction issues I'm sure there are a couple of mph still to be gained. But I have no idea how to launch semi-fast to cut something like a 2.0 60 foot and keep the car from wheel hopping for the entirety of 1st gear.

I didn't use launch control because it keeps traction control on and I'm concerned it might just bog the car down to 1200 RPM and restrict power in 1st like my first 2 runs today.

I'm listening to all answers. I'm not modifying anything until I figure out how to cut a 12.9 given the mph is obviously there.

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[Burkey]

Been there, done that, although a 16 manual rather than a 19.
In all honesty, it’s going to suck on a performance street radial no matter what you do.
Your taller gears won’t be helping you either.
No amount of IRS bracing can fix the hop you’re experiencing. Manuals are just BRUTAL by nature.
In short, you need to create a situation where the car can’t break traction.
A bias ply tyre will fix the issue but if drag racing isn’t really your thing, the investment is hardly worth it.
I tried a semi-slick radial and that helped, but the hop persisted, despite ALL the bits under the car. Lowering the pressures in the rears never seemed to do much for me, mainly because the sidewall on a performance tyre is just too damn hard to allow the car to sit down on it. I mean, take 20psi out of them and have a look at the flex in the tyre. Almost zero.
Do the same thing on a bias ply and the difference is obvious with every psi removed.
On a decent prep track, you should be able to get your current combo to 60’ around 1.7-1.8 if you’re doing it right. Anything sub 2.0 is acceptable. Anything over that is basically a train wreck.
You’re giving away nearly a full second in that first 60’ and then having to carry that deficit plus the lower acceleration rate to the end of the strip.
BMR CB005 is the very first thing to fit but it won’t fix your tyres.
LCA bearing will also help a LOT.
The added bonus of those two mods is that they don’t just aim to fix wheelhop. They also make the car more predictable in general.
The other components seem to have diminishing returns once you’ve pinned the subframe to the car and the LCA to the subframe. Vertical links would be next on my list.

 

[PeteS]

I had similar bad results in my first ever attempt in my 2018 manual GT (Basically almost identical spec to yours over here in Aus) although I think we have 450bhp. My car also has Magneride/recaros as per yours.

My 2 attempts very closely resembled yours. car had 2k km on the clock. First try, drag mode, dropped the clutch (with some mechanical sympathy) at about 2.5k. Bogged nearly instantly and registered a 2.8 second 60 foot, then I lifted before the line by mistake!

Second attempt I tried about 4k rpm with the same result! The best result I had was 14.5 at 104 I think!

I then went home!

I had no issues with traction once it actually got moving. Temps would probably have been in the 30's (degC) and the PS4S would have been pretty sticky in those temps. I have since tried a couple of launches away from the track and it will get going ok. I dont know why it seemed to bog so badly on the track. Very good surface maybe? I never tried slipping the clutch off the line and will do next time.

I also didnt try turning off the stability control as I didnt realise it wouldnt be turned off by either the drag mode or turning off traction control.

At least i can only get better! I think my Defender would have smashed my 60ft and probably 330ft times...

 

[Burkey]

Something else to consider, you really need to unplug the plug near the airbox to COMPLETELY get rid of ANY interference from the car. Trust me on this. You can press all the buttons you want, but until you remove the plug, nannies exist.
This is exactly why the plug needs to be pulled on the dyno. The car freaks out with variation between front and rear wheel speeds.

 

[cib24]

Ok, so next weekend I'll pull the fuse in the engine bay but the hop is really incredible how bad it is. I felt like I was going to break something on the 3rd and 4th run before shifting from 1st to 2nd.

I have the CB005 in my garage to install someday but won't get to it before this coming Sunday. I'd love to try with a set of bias ply tyres but I'll probably only go to the strip 6 or 7 times this year.

Also, using line lock seems to take forever and trying to dust the tyres without it just leads to hop prior to staging anyway.

I had tyre pressures at 22 PSI but I'll try 18 next weekend and I'll use line lock to cook the tyres for 7-10 seconds given the cold weather of 8-11 C outside. Hopefully the heat from the tyres will allow me to launch with less noticeable hop this coming Sunday.

But man, it's embarrassing compared to guys in their Golf Rs, AMG A45, BMW M4, M5, etc. all getting off the line with no issues due to legit launch control features.

I'm wasting at least 7/10ths of a second on the 60 foot and then another 7/10ths to a full second hopping in 1st gear, lifting and short shifting.

 

[cib24]

Has anyone had success using launch control set to a soecific RPM and slipping the clutch? Does traction control still bog the car down?

 

[Braski]

Get some bias ply slicks, set them to 12-14 psi cold, do a nice smokey burn out with a decent roll out, stage shallow, rev engine to 5k rpms, let the clutch out as fast as you can with out side stepping it and smash the gas pedal to the floor! That should result you a 1.5 60' if you make it that far without anything breaking! View attachment 440813

 

[cib24]

This car is running 5mph slower today at the strip. 2nd gear feels flat as hell. Taking forever to rev.

I don't know what the hell is going on. My 60 foots are better but the car doesn't want to pull hard in 2nd.

This is such a frustrating car.

 

[Burkey]

This car is running 5mph slower today at the strip. 2nd gear feels flat as hell. Taking forever to rev.

I don't know what the hell is going on. My 60 foots are better but the car doesn't want to pull hard in 2nd.

This is such a frustrating car.

Did you unplug the magic plug?

 

[ttbestas]

Did you unplug the magic plug?

whats the magic plug?

 

[Burkey]

whats the magic plug?

As pictured below.
It doesn’t just remove the TC/ESC. It also stops the car from recognising steering angle completely. Hence, with the plug removed, the reversing camera won’t indicate your steering direction.
With the plug connected but TC/ESC turned off, there’s still a certain amount of intervention.
I hooked mine up to a switch to allow on/off on command but I haven’t turned it back on in over 12 months other than to confirm my reversing camera theory.

 

[cib24]

I did not unplug the magic plug. I didn't see any TC lights or dash lights with the 2nd gear issue. It just fell on its face like it was pulling timing or doing some kind of torque management. Is there clutch protection torque management on manual cars?

 

[Braski]

I did not unplug the magic plug. I didn't see any TC lights or dash lights with the 2nd gear issue. It just fell on its face like it was pulling timing or doing some kind of torque management. Is there clutch protection torque management on manual cars?

Some say there is clutch protection/torque management but I have never encountered it. Also I never pulled that plug and have no problem getting 1.5's in the 60'. I put it in track and then hold up the traction control toggle until it says advanced traction is off.

 

[Burkey]

I did not unplug the magic plug. I didn't see any TC lights or dash lights with the 2nd gear issue. It just fell on its face like it was pulling timing or doing some kind of torque management. Is there clutch protection torque management on manual cars?

Clutch protection exists. It’s one of the things they get rid of when they tune it.
It’s quite possible that the car was busy trying to protect the driveline.

 

[cib24]

Some say there is clutch protection/torque management but I have never encountered it. Also I never pulled that plug and have no problem getting 1.5's in the 60'. I put it in track and then hold up the traction control toggle until it says advanced traction is off.

I can't figure it out. I had 11 runs today and only 3 were "ok" 2.3-2.4 60 foots. The other 8 runs had 2.5-2.7 60 foots mainly because I had issues launching or while in 1st gear. I basically run into 1 of 4 issues almost every time:

1. Very bad wheel hop
2. Car bogs down due to being too gentle off the line, and then mega wheel hop
3. Excessive tyre spin in 1st and 2nd gear
4. Shift into 2nd gear and the car falls flat on its face

Both weekends its been 45-50 F outside with a 20-25 mph headwind.

My default procedure is to put the car in drag mode, turn off launch control, hold the traction conrol button for 10 seconds to turn ESC off (Advancetrac in the USA).

I run 22-23 PSI in the tyres as per recommended on via searching.

I have tried 5-6 second linelock burnouts prior to staging. I have tried 1-2 second burnouts. I have tried zero burnouts.

I never dump the clutch, always slip it and ride it until about 4500 RPM in 1st.

I can't seem to leave the line with any real aggression because I usually get wheel hop, and if I don't get that with an agressive start (still a terrible 60 foot at 2.3 seconds) then the car kept falling flat in 2nd gear. The times it didn't fall flat I was 4 mph faster in the 1/8th and 5 mph faster in th 1/4.

I'm at a loss other than putting slicks on it. I think any wheel hop solutions will just put morestress on the half shafts and probably snap them if I try to leave hard.

I had a 2000 4.6L Mustang GT in High School when I grew up in the USA and I could consistently get 2.0-2.1 60 foots on bald Kumhos in that car. This car is a completely different animal and I'm really frustrated with it.

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