Tuners dissappearing [closed due to politics discussions]

[Gregs24]

I love flying and traveling and I'd never give that up lol

Completely agree, which is why we have to (and are doing) find less harmful ways of doing that.

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[Gregs24]

Thats where this will end up. The elites will still globe trot, us peeons will be burning wood to heat and cook with because our electric bill is 1500 per month and that is just to charge the car and run lights for 2 hours a night.

The real peons* don't have cars or lights.

 

[ss27gogeta]

We find alternatives to fossil fuels to allow us to carry on, which is what is happening. That way the world continues to prosper and survive.

Unfortunately I don't see electric being that where dose most of this electric come from fossil fuels. you ban gas to ramp up fossile fule plants to keep up with charging all the cars. So after all is said and done I don't see electric cars really being all that much more environmentally friendly in the end. I see electric cars as more of a get even richer scheme from elitist who already have a vested intrist in everything being electric. it has nothing to do with the planet its all about money and power.

 

[Gregs24]

Unfortunately I don't see electric being that where dose most of this electric come from fossil fuels. you ban gas to ramp up fossile fule plants to keep up with charging all the cars. So after all is said and done I don't see electric cars really being all that much more environmentally friendly in the end. I see electric cars as more of a get even richer scheme from elitist who already have a vested intrist in everything being electric. it has nothing to do with the planet its all about money and power.

Not over here in Europe where renewables / low carbon production have overtaken fossil fuels. Having said that even in the US low carbon electricity generation is now 40% of total production. The main difference is we have pretty much phased out coal as a source of energy compared to the US.

And before you say the infrastructure will not cope, electricity consumption has been falling in the UK for years as a result of more efficient heating and lighting and capacity requirements for EV's are factored in to long term planning. US electricity consumption has also been fairly static for the last 10 years

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[Gregs24]

I see electric cars as more of a get even richer scheme from elitist who already have a vested intrist in everything being electric. it has nothing to do with the planet its all about money and power.

And the US oil industry doesn't have a vested interest in everything remaining oil based ???? Plenty of multi millionaire oilmen in the US have a vested interest in wanting you to think exactly that.

 

[ctandc72]

And the US oil industry doesn't have a vested interest in everything remaining oil based ???? Plenty of multi millionaire oilmen in the US have a vested interest in wanting you to think exactly that.

Sure - because the oil industry definitely doesn't EXPORT oil to other countries.

You do know that less than half of ALL oil produced goes towards fuel...right?

You really think the oil industry is purely based on the automotive side of things?

You like to eat? Well petroleum (OIL) is used to produce ammonia. Think fertilizer.

Toluene, benzene, xylene etc etc.

Plastics, paints, detergents, dyes, fabrics etc etc etc etc.

Think Tesla could produce ONE electric car without petroleum?

I didn't even touch on natural gas....see it's really not considered "the oil industry"...it's the "gas and oil industry". Look up how many oils are produced from natural gas. Then look at how much of the United State's electricity is generated from natural gas.

Here's a fact that no one seems to want to face...

The WORLD's economy could not sustain itself, much less GROW at all, without oil and gas.

Show me a solar panel array, a wind turbine or a charging station for an electric car that doesn't depend on some for of petroleum product for its very existence....not to mention electricity production (excluding nuclear and hydro power)....

While we're speaking of vested interest....I wonder how many of the CEOs and heads of state, politicians and other industries - who are at the lead when pushing things like the Green New Deal, and other things of that nature....I'm sure they have NO vested interest in all the alternative technologies that will "replace" oil and gas.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Jebeezus - can we get off the fricking plane to car correlation on here? The analogy wasn't the PEOPLE count in a vehicle vs a plane - it was the pure fact that a plane is spewing more emissions in a single flight than a single vehicle does on the ground....even if both were peopless.

Aside from THAT - the thread topic was about vehicle tuners disappearing and then this whole thread took a turn with pages about folks arguing over a plane vs vehicle emissions...

If you're driving a car that NEVER sets its tires on asphalt for a weekly/daily or monthly timed event such as head to head competition drag racing (or insert any other competitive racing here) - there's absolutely NO benefit on a stock vehicle to running without cats, period. This isn't the 1970/1980/1990's any more folks... Technology and engineering has come a LONG way to the point where getting factory built vehicles coming off the showroom floors with MORE HP than any Muscle Car before it - that can do track times faster (and better) than any Muscle Car before it.... WITH CATS and EMISSIONS devices attached.

I'm not a greenie - but all I'm saying is, I want 1 of you who NEVER take your car to the track and have NEVER been at a track - but run catless to speak up and tell me what actual and factual data do you have that shows removing your cats was a gain for daily driving performance?

The only time running catless would have ANY true benefit is if the engine is heavily modified with or without a power adder, is operating at consistent higher RPM's for a sustained amount of time (drag racing, road racing, NASCAR, Sprint, dirt oval, auto-x, etc) and possibly running such fuel that would melt cats, period.
Carry on

 

[Gregs24]

Sure - because the oil industry definitely doesn't EXPORT oil to other countries.

You do know that less than half of ALL oil produced goes towards fuel...right?

You really think the oil industry is purely based on the automotive side of things?

You like to eat? Well petroleum (OIL) is used to produce ammonia. Think fertilizer.

Toluene, benzene, xylene etc etc.

Plastics, paints, detergents, dyes, fabrics etc etc etc etc.

Think Tesla could produce ONE electric car without petroleum?

I didn't even touch on natural gas....see it's really not considered "the oil industry"...it's the "gas and oil industry". Look up how many oils are produced from natural gas. Then look at how much of the United State's electricity is generated from natural gas.

Here's a fact that no one seems to want to face...

The WORLD's economy could not sustain itself, much less GROW at all, without oil and gas.

Show me a solar panel array, a wind turbine or a charging station for an electric car that doesn't depend on some for of petroleum product for its very existence....not to mention electricity production (excluding nuclear and hydro power)....

While we're speaking of vested interest....I wonder how many of the CEOs and heads of state, politicians and other industries - who are at the lead when pushing things like the Green New Deal, and other things of that nature....I'm sure they have NO vested interest in all the alternative technologies that will "replace" oil and gas.

I am well aware of what oil is used for!

I'm not really sure what the point is you are trying to make other than you personally don't want to do anything that involves change or development of alternatives to oil / gas. Luckily the human race isn't made up of luddites and will move on with or without you! I seem to remember many saying coal could never be replaced and it has now pretty much gone from our lives in Europe thank goodness.

 

[K4fxd]

I seem to remember many saying coal could never be replaced and it has now pretty much gone from our lives in Europe thank goodness.

With scrubbers and other emission controls coal is as clean as natural gas.

Killing an inexpensive form of energy is foolish and will only lead to increased energy costs.

 

[Gregs24]

With scrubbers and other emission controls coal is as clean as natural gas.

Killing an inexpensive form of energy is foolish and will only lead to increased energy costs.

Oh well, we seem to have foolishly got on with it over here and all is well.

 

[FreePenguin]

Jebeezus - can we get off the fricking plane to car correlation on here? The analogy wasn't the PEOPLE count in a vehicle vs a plane - it was the pure fact that a plane is spewing more emissions in a single flight than a single vehicle does on the ground....even if both were peopless.

Aside from THAT - the thread topic was about vehicle tuners disappearing and then this whole thread took a turn with pages about folks arguing over a plane vs vehicle emissions...

If you're driving a car that NEVER sets its tires on asphalt for a weekly/daily or monthly timed event such as head to head competition drag racing (or insert any other competitive racing here) - there's absolutely NO benefit on a stock vehicle to running without cats, period. This isn't the 1970/1980/1990's any more folks... Technology and engineering has come a LONG way to the point where getting factory built vehicles coming off the showroom floors with MORE HP than any Muscle Car before it - that can do track times faster (and better) than any Muscle Car before it.... WITH CATS and EMISSIONS devices attached.

I'm not a greenie - but all I'm saying is, I want 1 of you who NEVER take your car to the track and have NEVER been at a track - but run catless to speak up and tell me what actual and factual data do you have that shows removing your cats was a gain for daily driving performance?

The only time running catless would have ANY true benefit is if the engine is heavily modified with or without a power adder, is operating at consistent higher RPM's for a sustained amount of time (drag racing, road racing, NASCAR, Sprint, dirt oval, auto-x, etc) and possibly running such fuel that would melt cats, period.
Carry on

I gained a 2-3mpg increases reducing the cat.

 

[Donm308]

Jebeezus - can we get off the fricking plane to car correlation on here? The analogy wasn't the PEOPLE count in a vehicle vs a plane - it was the pure fact that a plane is spewing more emissions in a single flight than a single vehicle does on the ground....even if both were peopless.

Aside from THAT - the thread topic was about vehicle tuners disappearing and then this whole thread took a turn with pages about folks arguing over a plane vs vehicle emissions...

If you're driving a car that NEVER sets its tires on asphalt for a weekly/daily or monthly timed event such as head to head competition drag racing (or insert any other competitive racing here) - there's absolutely NO benefit on a stock vehicle to running without cats, period. This isn't the 1970/1980/1990's any more folks... Technology and engineering has come a LONG way to the point where getting factory built vehicles coming off the showroom floors with MORE HP than any Muscle Car before it - that can do track times faster (and better) than any Muscle Car before it.... WITH CATS and EMISSIONS devices attached.

I'm not a greenie - but all I'm saying is, I want 1 of you who NEVER take your car to the track and have NEVER been at a track - but run catless to speak up and tell me what actual and factual data do you have that shows removing your cats was a gain for daily driving performance?

The only time running catless would have ANY true benefit is if the engine is heavily modified with or without a power adder, is operating at consistent higher RPM's for a sustained amount of time (drag racing, road racing, NASCAR, Sprint, dirt oval, auto-x, etc) and possibly running such fuel that would melt cats, period.
Carry on

To your point, not that long ago 2010, the GT from the factory put out 315 HP w/325 lbs torque. Just five short years later the entry level 2015 4 cylinder EcoBoost put out 310 HP w/320 lbs of torque. Now another 5 years and you can purchase a GT500 with 760 HP..... from the factory..... YES, technology and the combustible engine have come an extremely long way!

 

[ctandc72]

I am well aware of what oil is used for!
I'm not really sure what the point is you are trying to make other than you personally don't want to do anything that involves change or development of alternatives to oil / gas. Luckily the human race isn't made up of luddites and will move on with or without you! I seem to remember many saying coal could never be replaced and it has now pretty much gone from our lives in Europe thank goodness.

Okay. So if you are aware, and the goal is to use less oil - why would the focus be on the automotive industry?

Your post seems to think that people are being "fooled" by money-hungry oil industry "millionaires" who want everything to stay the same so they can get richer. That was LITERALLY your post.

Most people who are multi-millionaires, especially those in a cut throat business like the oil and gas industry aren't sitting around hoping to keep things the same so they don't lose money.

They are investing in alternative energy sources, processes etc. That's how most of them became multi-millionaires (and stayed that way) in the first place.

The cold hard fact is that most countries do NOT have the power grid to deal with a large replacement of gas / oil burning vehicles with EVs. That power comes from somewhere.

So what are you trying to say exactly? Coal isn't gone from your life in the UK or Europe. The pure cost of totally replacing coal during high demand times for electricity would pass on huge rate increases for people.

In fact, the UK gets over 35% of it's power from fossil fuels. Most from natural gas. And come Winter time in the UK - coal burning power plants crank back up for more capacity. Why? Because when people need heat they are either using appliances that use electricity (and the current production from wind (24%), Nuclear (17%), solar (4%) etc) can't keep up with demand during the Winter.

Not to mention the consumption of FUEL OIL for furnaces. A few years ago it was something along the lines of 2 million households in the UK used heating oil to heat their homes. I'm sure the number has dropped some - with many going electric or using natural gas / propane. (Still part of the oil / gas industry).

You respond to my comment (which had nothing to do with your personally) and call me a "Luddite". Which is actually ironic and kind of amusing. Considering Luddites destroyed the machinery which brought on the industrial revolution......which could have never happened without fossil fuels, coal especially.

My point? You have been sold a bill of goods. The world isn't close to running out of oil, much less fossil fuels.

The attention-grabber is EVs right now. Let's get rid of those nasty ICE powered vehicles.

What about trucks? You know - the diesel burning contraptions which are responsible for the vast majority of consumer goods that 99.9% of all people depend / rely on every day? What's the plan there? You think everyday consumer goods are expensive now, wait until all trucking companies have to switch to EV powered trucks. Well most won't switch - they'll go out of business. They won't have the reserves to lay out that kind of cash (without major subsidies from the government) for upgrading all their vehicles and infrastructure.

I was responding to YOUR POST where you seem to point at "greedy" oil industry millionaires as somehow being responsible for keeping the ICE powered vehicle alive.

Follow the money. Who makes the most money from huge legislation passed at national government levels which moves everything to alternative energy methods? You think all these politicians and businesses are doing this out of their concern for the environment?

What about rare earth minerals? You know - the many times TOXIC, but NECESSARY things that have to be DUG OUT of the earth in huge mines - so that all these EVs and other devices can even exist? What about the damage to the planet caused by these mines?

Ever look into the process for recycling all the batteries used for EVs and other alternative power sources? Wind turbine parts?

Ask a climate expert...what's better for the environment, buying a used car or buying a new EV. You might not get the answer (if they are being honest) that you think you will.

My point is that governments getting involved will NOT help when it comes to alternative energy sources. They won't. They pass legislation, give subsidies (which these millionaires take with a smile) and in the process they slow down the innovation that would come if people were able to compete on a level playing field. Unintended consequences are still consequences.

I'm not again technology...I make my living because of technology.

My point is that nothing is as simple as so many people want to make it out to be......and the "optics" of a many subjects are now what matters, regardless of facts.

 

[ctandc72]

Oh well, we seem to have foolishly got on with it over here and all is well.

LOL - you haven't. See my post.

 

[TexasMetallic5.0]

I remove my cats just to negate one Prius on the road.

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