Transmission failure at 9600 miles, lost reverse months ago and dealer says not warranty for clutch in pieces

[honeybadger]

I think they mean 30 min to do clutch/flywheel with the trans already out (as it is here) -- dealer has 1.5 hrs labor charge on my bill to do clutch.

Problem is, where does Ford explicitly say not to use helicoils? I can't find documentation anywhere. I did tell this to the Ford rep assigned to me, but she is obviously not technical, and I've demanded a Ford Zone Rep come out, but all she can do is request a hotline ticket open for an "unsolved problem." Please LMK if you have any documentation to this effect.

Otherwise, I agree and makes sense due to the unique vibrations of the flat plane crank, Ford would not authorize drilling or helicoils.

I am playing hardball now, and the dealer certainly seems pissed at me. They want me to pay $2.8k or order my clutch parts asap so they can get it installed before putting the replacement trans in (and ignoring my engine issue) and get the car off the hoist. It's been 6 weeks now and I'm not backing down or agreeing to pay for the clutch unless someone from Ford actually tells me the clutch coverage is denied and why (also as I mentioned a new long block comes with a flywheel attached, which is 1/2 the cost of the new clutch parts).

ETA: I have the service rep who helped EF300's new motor due to ac bolts left me a message about the whole situation and how Ford requried the new motor. Would you mind PM any relevant contact or references to similar situations as well.

I don't have any official documentation. Just gents that have reached out to Ford to confirm and the engineers responded that it should not be be done and engine replacement was preferred. You're on the right track with asking @EF300 for help

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[MikeR397]

But they wouldn't charge for just that part (at least not in the original 2800 estimate). IF they're not warrantying it, they'll charge you for disassembly and re-assembly Sure, if everything is already out and you're not getting charged for that part, 60-90 mins is reasonable for tech that doesn't know all the torque specs by heart (different than a Coyote).

But the original quote assumed OP was paying for everything. So the parts and labor were all on him (including tear down and re-assembly).

The quote I was given was for $2,726.24, which includes 1.5 hrs labor for $196.07, then $2363.37 for the clutch parts I listed here (plus tax): https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...r-clutch-in-pieces.148866/page-3#post-3041701

So, no they are not charging me labor for the trans removal, just 35% above MSRP for the Ford parts lol. They did say I can order the parts elseware and they will install, the issue again is the clutch should be warrantied and while this is all going down, the engine needs replaced (which comes with an attached flywheel anyway).

 

[MikeR397]

Here is the service write up for when the helicoils were done on 2 of 3 bolt holes. Doesn’t mention removing trans and there’s nothing else I’ve had done that would possibly require it.

 

[honeybadger]

The quote I was given was for $2,726.24, which includes 1.5 hrs labor for $196.07, then $2363.37 for the clutch parts I listed here (plus tax): https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...r-clutch-in-pieces.148866/page-3#post-3041701

So, no they are not charging me labor for the trans removal, just 35% above MSRP for the Ford parts lol. They did say I can order the parts elseware and they will install, the issue again is the clutch should be warrantied and while this is all going down, the engine needs replaced (which comes with an attached flywheel anyway).

Oh they're charging you for it, just in the parts cost. Even my shady local dealer will price match parts with AutoNation if I complain enough. You always pay one way or another. I wonder if they're getting reimbursed by Ford for something. Will be good to do your due diligence on your end to make sure you're not getting taken advantage of. Shitty situation. Sucks to hear you're going through it.

Here is the service write up for when the helicoils were done on 2 of 3 bolt holes. Doesn’t mention removing trans and there’s nothing else I’ve had done that would possibly require it.

Ahh, looks like they didn't even remove the k-member since they could get access with the EPAS

 

[MikeR397]

Well, this ruined the last two track events of the year for me, and has surged since last October, but now is the time to get this all sorted out if I'm going to keep this car, and not deal with a potential new motor in the spring and lots of missed events. If it was only the helicoils, I would take my chances as I have 5 years left of full warranty with a premium extended warranty $50 deductible on this 2017 R, but the main driver is that I've been in 5 service attempts for engine surging due to VCT issues (wire harness fixed twice, driveshaft flange nut tsb done, valves actuated, ect) and I'm still having VCT and surging issues. The dealer can't fix it, it's past lemon turn in (not Magnusson act though but that's not turn in), and a new long block comes with new VCT's that should fix the surging issue my dealer cannot fix.

The surging happens after pretty much any spirited use to 6k RPM, even on the road just after the engine is warm. The car kicks/surges so bad in 6th gear (with see manual wrench, no cruise control and eventually CEL codes stored) that it's very difficult to even maintain 75mph on the highway cruising, and it really sucks doing this for 2-3 hours home after a track event. The car has performed ok WOT on track though, despite this VCT, it only surges in partial throttle on the street and high gear (although upshifts it seems to miss and kick, although that may have been a symptom of the failing transmission/clutch).

 

[ZZxtra]

Who knows... all this surging and kicking and bucking may have been a contributing factor to the clutch and transmission failures.

 

[sigintel]

Lol, OK. I looked at how you would need to make room to drill anything around the AC compressor. No Effing way did that tech have enough room to work without getting creative...


Michigan ehhh? How far from Toledo/Detroit?

Maybe get 5 lb of fresh Kielbasa (Biawa) from Andersons, Kowolsky's and Stan's and arrange a sitdown with Ford.

This basically comes across as:
AC problem incorrectly diagnosed.
AC compressor incorrectly remounted.
AC compressor belt breaks and takes out main serpentine and overheats heads and further damages AC.

Damage: Somewhere along the way, the block and trans are incorrectly supported and the block flanges are damaged and bell housing broken. This REALLY looks like a tech put a jack under the block and cranked it up too far so he could move the passenger side engine mount to get to the compressor.
He got frustrated and left it over night SUPPORTED ONLY BY A SHOP HYDRAULIC JACK.
In morning he comes back to find the jack has bled down and dropped the engine down without passenger engine mount in place.
He then decides he needs more room to insert the helicoil inserts and loosens the bell housing/block bolts and starts jacking again.
Then he puts pry bars in between the block and bell housing and SHATTERS the two block flanges that you can clearly see are damaged. His pry bar hammered in against the clutch damages a chunk off the clutch.

Hell, maybe he lowered the vehicle on the 4 post with a fixed support under the oil pan to hold the engine up. The binding could lead to the tech taking prybars to the bell housing to try n get more angle and room to work on the AC helicoils work.

You need an attorney and a police report for vandalism...
joking, not joking.
Have your attorney, and a wrecker truck show up to move the vehicle to your property and take a ton of video and still pictures.
Dealership will shit...

How do I know the dealer tech did this?.....

Cause if THEY DIDNT DO IT THEY WOULD HAVE PHOTOGRAPHED IT AND TOLD FORD YOU TORE THE BLOCK AND BELL HOUSING UP.
..but they didn't, cause THEY DID THIS SHIT AND ARE HIDING IT FROM FORD CAUSE FORDS GONNA CHARGE THEM.

 

[nordique14]

The surging happens after pretty much any spirited use to 6k RPM, even on the road just after the engine is warm. The car kicks/surges so bad in 6th gear (with see manual wrench, no cruise control and eventually CEL codes stored) that it's very difficult to even maintain 75mph on the highway cruising, and it really sucks doing this for 2-3 hours home after a track event. The car has performed ok WOT on track though, despite this VCT, it only surges in partial throttle on the street and high gear (although upshifts it seems to miss and kick, although that may have been a symptom of the failing transmission/clutch).

I am now also experiencing the exact same problems. Just started a couple of weeks ago. I am dreading bringing it to dealer. I will do it next month and let you know if they actually find the underlying cause. If not, I may end up in the same situation as you.

 

[sigintel]

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/attachments/f535312a-dcd9-4663-9277-7a9a99c88150-jpeg.514922/
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/attachments/6215d321-0909-4898-8372-7721d744c1e3-jpeg.514923/

Appears you and dealer got screwed by a tech having a bad day.

The engine was run hard on track with the bell housing to engine bolts and interface either damaged or incorrectly torqued.

This block and bell housing are incompatible with safe operation on a track at high speeds.

Having done failure analysis and legal support for a Tier 1:
The damage on the bell housing shows the engine and transmission where rubbing against each other with high amounts of force resulting in rub marks/galling and stress cracks in the block and transmission at the physical interface. The force was enough to crack the bell housing which nearly guarantees the block flanges are cracked which you can see on your block near the bolt hole.


This could have easily cost OP his life. I really would remove that vehicle from the dealership and have an attorney offer Ford a modest resolution including $3k attorney fees. Ford legal should look at this and realize the risk to Ford created by this dealer tech is enormous. The block and trans are trashed and any claim in a legal setting by the dealer that they are not responsible for this will fail as a case of estoppel.

The issue then becomes how much risk was the OP in driving this at speed on a track ?
Unaware of possible catastrophic failure of the trans/engine attachment?

Ford, please consider listening to your powertrain engineers regarding this.
You might need to send this post to the ones that dont already have a copy with images...
Get the customer a functioning safe Mustang to use as intended before he lawyers up?

 

[sigintel]

Hard to say, but I would would assume they removed the k-member and hung the engine from the engine bay, so I doubt they messed with the trans. Even if they dropped the engine, the trans typically comes with it.

If I had to guess, the clutch exploded and then got wedged between stuff while the engine was running and cracked stuff. The bell housing is cast aluminum....it's not that strong.

Doubtful?
Consider:
When a flywheel or clutch blows the bell housing up, its one immediate swift failure: no long term damage and galling from trans and engine rubbing and slapping together due to failed or loose bolts.

A cross section cut of the flange threads in block will show damage from loose bolts during max engine output. They look like crap just from the picture.

Pretty sure they tried lifting up on the block to get clearance to drill the AC helicoils and loosed the block/trans bolts and used a pry bar to get extra angle.

Go look at your AC bolts: imagine trying to redrill the threads in the block?
If they dropped the k member, why does the service writeup say they removed the rack?!!! Because they tried to avoid unbolting the kmember and needing to do an alignment....

Tech trashed this drivetrain, not the op. And other peoples safety and the ops safety on track using the vehicle as intended was compromised...

 

[MikeR397]

Wow, this is getting interesting. Guess I need to go there today and get some more pictures and examine the engine block flanges better.

Strategy wise, I’m avoiding trying to highlight blame currently on my dealer, as I’m not sure it helps a warranty claim or maguson act claim if I have to go that route, and it certainly creates more hostility than already exists

I left voicemails with the shop foreman and ford rep yesterday morning, no call back. i’ll be certain to being these issues up and further ask to be shown how exactly they got access to helicoil the bolts in the first place. They did have the car for THREE weeks for this helicoils job.

appreciate all the feedback here!

 

[MikeR397]

The damage on the bell housing shows the engine and transmission where rubbing against each other with high amounts of force resulting in rub marks/galling and stress cracks in the block and transmission at the physical interface. The force was enough to crack the bell housing which nearly guarantees the block flanges are cracked which you can see on your block near the bolt hole.


The issue then becomes how much risk was the OP in driving this at speed on a track ?
Unaware of possible catastrophic failure of the trans/engine attachment?

In the pics I posted, are these notches engineered and supposed to be here or are they broken off? Is this part of the engine block itself or a serviceable plate before it?

eta: and this certainly looks like a crack on the engine mount flange, no?

 

[jmn444]

https://www.fordpartsprime.com/genuine/ford-plate_cylinder_block_rear-fr3z7007a.html

it appears it's a "normal" block plate / starter index plate, but i haven't looked under mine to verify that.

 

[jmn444]

image w/o the plate to give you an idea of what it is....

 

[Unclenard]

Looks like this piece that some people get a buzzing/rattling sound from.

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