Transmission failure at 9600 miles, lost reverse months ago and dealer says not warranty for clutch in pieces

[luc]

I think you have a pretty good argument on the clutch personally, but it is technically excluded from the warranty. I'd fight for it if I was in your shoes!

They did warranted mine

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[MikeR397]

Ford says the don’t see a warranty claim made on my clutch (and certainly not the motor from helicoils). Dealer says it was denied by ford twice. Ford is now reaching out to dealer so this will get interesting real fast...

 

[Shift]

Ford says the don’t see a warranty claim made on my clutch (and certainly not the motor from helicoils). Dealer says it was denied by ford twice. Ford is now reaching out to dealer so this will get interesting real fast...

This is great news. You'll find out if this dealer has been truly shady, and Ford will catch them with their pants down, and hopefully get this entire ordeal resolved in your favor. And also, avoid this dealer like the plague.

 

[GreenS550]

If this is the dealership you got the R from, if be interested in knowing how many miles it has on when you bought it new.

 

[shogun32]

Also, I mentioned that I have helicoil's in my engine block due to a AC compressor bolts sheering off. Ford does not allow this, but my dealer did it anyway and never consulted them

Did they even try the bolt-removal steps or did they just jump to the drill it out and helicoil it solution?

 

[MikeR397]

If this is the dealership you got the R from, if be interested in knowing how many miles it has on when you bought it new.

I did buy it from this dealer. It was low/Normal new miles, like 11 or 14 or something like that.

shogun, I don’t know what they tried first with the broken bolts, I just have a service record saying they drilled them out and put in helicoils.

 

[ZZxtra]

Also, I mentioned that I have helicoil's in my engine block due to a AC compressor bolts sheering off. Ford does not allow this, but my dealer did it anyway and never consulted them. I have service record saying as much.

Thanks!

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but properly installed helicoil threads are stronger than original. Just think of it... aluminum vs steel threds.

 

[Shift]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but properly installed helicoil threads are stronger than original. Just think of it... aluminum vs steel threds.

It's pretty common knowledge. The thing is, Ford Performance doesn't want the dealerships fixing these engines, at all. Basic oil changes only. If any actual work needs to be performed, or if a bolt snapped off, Ford authorizes a new engine to be placed in, and the old engine sent back to Ford.

 

[honeybadger]

Y’all that think you replace the clutch/flywheel in half hour are out of your minds. That’s a couple hour job to remove the exhaust, driveshaft, and then trans with all its crap (lines, sensors, linkage, etc.)

Also, Ford explicitly says not to use helicoils in the block because of the vibrations not because of strength. I know of two guys who had motors replaced due to the dealer doing a helicoil unauthorized.

OP - don’t accept anything but ford covering all work. And don’t except any bullshit about helicoils. That’s a lazy dealer

 

[sigintel]

Did someone at a track day see you go off?This looks like someone jumped some railroad tracks or curbing at the track or gravel trap.
Those bell house cracks required monster force.
If you DID NOT hit anything with this car on the underside of engine or trans,
Andealer stripped those bolts, I would seriously look around the top unibody just inside fenders to see if a tech dropped the motor during trans mating or other procedure while using the engine support frame.

Buy a can of dye penetrant.
Wipe all the rear engine block especially the flanges near bell mounting points. I suspect a cracked block flange.
If that bell was cracked, and you drove 10/10th on track w track tires, I can almost guarantee the remaining block flange mounts were overloaded and cracked.

 

[jmn444]

Y’all that think you replace the clutch/flywheel in half hour are out of your minds. That’s a couple hour job to remove the exhaust, driveshaft, and then trans with all its crap (lines, sensors, linkage, etc.)

Also, Ford explicitly says not to use helicoils in the block because of the vibrations not because of strength. I know of two guys who had motors replaced due to the dealer doing a helicoil unauthorized.

OP - don’t accept anything but ford covering all work. And don’t except any bullshit about helicoils. That’s a lazy dealer

the trans would already be out of the car in this case though, so the extra time to put a new clutch/flywheel in is minimal.

 

[honeybadger]

the trans would already be out of the car in this case though, so the extra time to put a new clutch/flywheel in is minimal.

But they wouldn't charge for just that part (at least not in the original 2800 estimate). IF they're not warrantying it, they'll charge you for disassembly and re-assembly Sure, if everything is already out and you're not getting charged for that part, 60-90 mins is reasonable for tech that doesn't know all the torque specs by heart (different than a Coyote).

But the original quote assumed OP was paying for everything. So the parts and labor were all on him (including tear down and re-assembly).

 

[MikeR397]

Did someone at a track day see you go off?This looks like someone jumped some railroad tracks or curbing at the track or gravel trap.
Those bell house cracks required monster force.
If you DID NOT hit anything with this car on the underside of engine or trans,
Andealer stripped those bolts, I would seriously look around the top unibody just inside fenders to see if a tech dropped the motor during trans mating or other procedure while using the engine support frame.

Buy a can of dye penetrant.
Wipe all the rear engine block especially the flanges near bell mounting points. I suspect a cracked block flange.
If that bell was cracked, and you drove 10/10th on track w track tires, I can almost guarantee the remaining block flange mounts were overloaded and cracked.

I've never had 1 full tire go off track, nor have I ever hit anything bigger than a small pothole on the streets, so no this isn't impact damage (nor has the dealer said this). This is good advice, the only two pics I have is the flywheel still attached (?) and there looks like gaskets between the engine and where the bell housing on the trans mount that have big chunks missing out of them. I was under the impression these are replaceable but I did not get to look at the motor much when I was in the shop. If there is a cracked block flange, then forget the helicoli issue anyway, the motor needs replacement. I will contact the dealer about this.

I wonder if when the AC bolts were drilled out and holes helicoiled early last spring, could the engine have been dropped down and disconnected from the trans, and then the dealer caused this damage reattaching the trans to the motor? Is it possible to drill the AC bolts out and helicoil without dropping the motor and disconnecting the trans (I presume by removing the front bumper and radiator, otherwise how is there clerence)?

Here is the pics I reference:

 

[MikeR397]

Y’all that think you replace the clutch/flywheel in half hour are out of your minds. That’s a couple hour job to remove the exhaust, driveshaft, and then trans with all its crap (lines, sensors, linkage, etc.)

Also, Ford explicitly says not to use helicoils in the block because of the vibrations not because of strength. I know of two guys who had motors replaced due to the dealer doing a helicoil unauthorized.

OP - don’t accept anything but ford covering all work. And don’t except any bullshit about helicoils. That’s a lazy dealer

I think they mean 30 min to do clutch/flywheel with the trans already out (as it is here) -- dealer has 1.5 hrs labor charge on my bill to do clutch.

Problem is, where does Ford explicitly say not to use helicoils? I can't find documentation anywhere. I did tell this to the Ford rep assigned to me, but she is obviously not technical, and I've demanded a Ford Zone Rep come out, but all she can do is request a hotline ticket open for an "unsolved problem." Please LMK if you have any documentation to this effect.

Otherwise, I agree and makes sense due to the unique vibrations of the flat plane crank, Ford would not authorize drilling or helicoils.

I am playing hardball now, and the dealer certainly seems pissed at me. They want me to pay $2.8k or order my clutch parts asap so they can get it installed before putting the replacement trans in (and ignoring my engine issue) and get the car off the hoist. It's been 6 weeks now and I'm not backing down or agreeing to pay for the clutch unless someone from Ford actually tells me the clutch coverage is denied and why (also as I mentioned a new long block comes with a flywheel attached, which is 1/2 the cost of the new clutch parts).

ETA: I have the service rep who helped EF300's new motor due to ac bolts left me a message about the whole situation and how Ford requried the new motor. Would you mind PM any relevant contact or references to similar situations as well.

 

[honeybadger]

I've never had 1 full tire go off track, nor have I ever hit anything bigger than a small pothole on the streets, so no this isn't impact damage (nor has the dealer said this). This is good advice, the only two pics I have is the flywheel still attached (?) and there looks like gaskets between the engine and where the bell housing on the trans mount that have big chunks missing out of them. I was under the impression these are replaceable but I did not get to look at the motor much when I was in the shop. If there is a cracked block flange, then forget the helicoli issue anyway, the motor needs replacement. I will contact the dealer about this.

I wonder if when the AC bolts were drilled out and holes helicoiled early last spring, could the engine have been dropped down and disconnected from the trans, and then the dealer caused this damage reattaching the trans to the motor? Is it possible to drill the AC bolts out and helicoil without dropping the motor and disconnecting the trans (I presume by removing the front bumper and radiator, otherwise how is there clerence)?

Here is the pics I reference:

Hard to say, but I would would assume they removed the k-member and hung the engine from the engine bay, so I doubt they messed with the trans. Even if they dropped the engine, the trans typically comes with it.

If I had to guess, the clutch exploded and then got wedged between stuff while the engine was running and cracked stuff. The bell housing is cast aluminum....it's not that strong.

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