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Track Time Limited due to High CHT

tosha

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Mine is far from elegant but it’s pretty darn sealed up. Just a bunch of aluminum and 3M tape. I don’t have any totally finished product pictures but this should grove you an idea of my caveman solution… seems to be working

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Cool, thanks! If you could clarify the following questions that would be great:
1) basically, you are sealing off the area between front bumber and condenser radiator, right? Your ducts don't seem to extend beyond it.
2) have you sealed the areas between condenser and radiator, or the rubber sealing that is there already is sufficient enough?
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NeverSatisfied

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Cool, thanks! If you could clarify the following questions that would be great:
1) basically, you are sealing off the area between front bumber and condenser radiator, right? Your ducts don't seem to extend beyond it.
2) have you sealed the areas between condenser and radiator, or the rubber sealing that is there already is sufficient enough?
1. Correct sealing so all air flows through condenser. Poke around and you’ll find good sized air gaps all around.

2. There’s air gaps particularly in the corners between condenser and radiator. Top corner openings are huge. Seal them all off.
 

Scootsmcgreggor

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Unfortunately no CAD drawings. Just a full weekend of trial and error shaping it. That shroud was used without an ac condenser but you could build one similar that would work with a condenser. You’d still need to seal between condenser and radiator though. I was trying to figure out how to seal the condenser to the radiator at the beginning of building that shroud when I noticed a leaking ac line. It was a sign from the race car gods that they wanted my car 20lbs lighter so out came the ac system.
 

tosha

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Unfortunately no CAD drawings. Just a full weekend of trial and error shaping it. That shroud was used without an ac condenser but you could build one similar that would work with a condenser. You’d still need to seal between condenser and radiator though. I was trying to figure out how to seal the condenser to the radiator at the beginning of building that shroud when I noticed a leaking ac line. It was a sign from the race car gods that they wanted my car 20lbs lighter so out came the ac system.
Don't get my below post wrong, your shroud looks better than anything I could come up with, but I have more stuff going on in front of the main radiator - the condenser, then roush SC intecooler radiator, bunch of additional piping and etc. Also, I want to keep it as much reversible as possible, so relocating stuff is just not in the plan. If I ever make it a dedicated track car, I will definitely take inspiration from your duct design.

Good news is that I have most of it figured out with cardboard mockup pieces. I think I will start cutting aluminum sheets very soon. Will post some pictures if it works and anyone would be interested.
 

GTP

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I haven't investigated in depth, but my idea is to source 3mm bendable PVC and then use plastic rivets to attach small pieces to existing ones to seal up the small leaks. Pretty easy fabricating.
 

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Kennysum1

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Just curious why nobody has brought up these?

https://www.cjponyparts.com/mishimoto-fan-race-line-high-flow-11-/p/MMFAN11HD/

It seems like it would be a HUGE help to run these instead of those turds that come on there stock. Looks like they flow way better in addition to moving more air. I will have to do some testing but it appears that 2 11 inch ones would fit for massive air movement through the radiator. Put them on a manual switch and it seems to me a lot of the cooling issues from the radiators would be solved.

Just wondering why no ody has brought these up at all? They are not perfect as you would need to bolt the overflow tank on there somehow and wire them in if you used 2. But seems way easier than taking the car completely apart to wrap the stock radiator in a combination of cardboard and duct tape.

I have to be missing something.
 

NeverSatisfied

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Just curious why nobody has brought up these?

https://www.cjponyparts.com/mishimoto-fan-race-line-high-flow-11-/p/MMFAN11HD/

It seems like it would be a HUGE help to run these instead of those turds that come on there stock. Looks like they flow way better in addition to moving more air. I will have to do some testing but it appears that 2 11 inch ones would fit for massive air movement through the radiator. Put them on a manual switch and it seems to me a lot of the cooling issues from the radiators would be solved.

Just wondering why no ody has brought these up at all? They are not perfect as you would need to bolt the overflow tank on there somehow and wire them in if you used 2. But seems way easier than taking the car completely apart to wrap the stock radiator in a combination of cardboard and duct tape.

I have to be missing something.
Are you fighting to stay cool in traffic or what are you trying to accomplish?

If trying to stay cool while on track -- you're on the wrong track!
 

Kennysum1

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Are you fighting to stay cool in traffic or what are you trying to accomplish?

If trying to stay cool while on track -- you're on the wrong track!
Not sure what you are saying? How could a larger more free flowing fan that moves more air through the radiator not help keep it cooler?
 

ihasnostang

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Are you fighting to stay cool in traffic or what are you trying to accomplish?

If trying to stay cool while on track -- you're on the wrong track!
is there any scientific evidence that fans don't work at higher speeds? has anyone ever measured the air velocity at the back of a heat exchanger stack? trophy trucks that race in baja have radiators behind the cab and rely on fans, and i don't think those overheat. If anyone wants to risk a fan motor try running them on high speed via forscan thread during a session, although you would assume at higher speeds there would be less electrical load..

C8 Z51 coolant capacity: 22qt
GT PP 14qt
 
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tosha

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is there any scientific evidence that fans don't work at higher speeds? has anyone ever measured the air velocity at the back of a heat exchanger stack?
Dunno about scientific evidence, but these fans combined produce 3400 cfm. You can pick a comparable jobsite fan and put your hand in front of it. Then jump in a car, accelerate to 120mph and stick your hand out of the window, measure the difference with the buttmeter, and if it's similar, please do report back to this thread.
 

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tosha

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moving back to duct tape stuff, this was quite time consuming, but it starts coming together. I have spent quite some time with cardboard doing mockup pieces, test fitting the bumper and making sure snug fit both at the radiator side and the bumper. tools and materials used in next steps:
24x48 sheet of aluminum from home depot: Paulin 24 x 48 x 0.025-inch Aluminum Sheet Metal | The Home Depot Canada
edge trim guard roll from amazon: Blue edge trim small 0.375" U height x 0.039"-0.093" Grip range (25 Feet OR 7.65 Meter) : Amazon.ca: Home
Silicone seal strip: Silicone Seal Strip,8M/26ft Door Strip Bottom for Doors Silicone Sealing Sticker Adhesive for Doors and Windows Gaps of Anti-Collision Anti-Dust Silicone (35mm), Silicone - Amazon Canada
Rivnut gun: 17" 440mm M3 M4 M5,m6,m8,m10 M12, 10-24, 1/4-20 , 5/16-18,3/8-10 ,Hand Riveter Rivet Gun, Riveting Tools with Nut Setting System M3-m12 Bt607 : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement
and box of rivnuts: 860PCS Metric Rivet Nut Set,Flat Head Threaded Insert Rivet Nutsert Assortment Kit in Size M3 M4 M5 M6 M8 M10 M12 : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement
Heavy duty duct tape, rubbing alcohol, bunch of basic and battery operated tools for sheet metal cutting, drilling and etc. Did I mention good supply of beer in the fridge?

the result so far is a set of such panels:
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there are 2 pieces on passenger side and 3 pieces on driver side, that will be assembled and bolted together during installation, the end result is something like this:
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It seems to have a pretty good seal so far and remaining openings would be taped with duct tape.
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the goal here is to make everything easy to remove if necessary without major disassembly or other work on the front of the car. these panels will be secured to structural members, but even as-is, they are pretty snug. few observations and thoughts so far:
- silicone seal seems to be a good option where there is no other good way to seal a perimeter (bumper side, radiator side, around some tubes, pipes and etc). will see how well it can maintain the seal at speeds
- aluminum is extremely easy to work with, very easy to cut compared to duct metal, easy to shape around obstacles and in case of a minor accident it should bend instead of damaging something. yes, it's a bit more expensive but one sheet was enough for me, so not a big deal
- I went with the same approach as mentioned here to duct space between bumper and A/C condenser. space between condenser and actual radiator is already sealed with rubber from factory, except for the top piece. I think I have a solution for this as well.
- Roush heat exchanger adds quite a some complexity to the overall task, but it's manageable.
- also ordered a mini irrigation kit from amazon, following the idea from @Flyhalf . that one will be next after ducting is done.

the project continues, so if I'm doing something terribly wrong, please chime in 😁
 
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67Fast_V

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Nice work@Tosha and thanks for sharing. For my panels, I stopped at the cardboard part. Just wrapped it with 3M HD duct tape and called it good enough. Couldn't manage all the aluminum cutting of 15-20 different pieces to fill all the gaps. So far, the wrapped panels are holding fine. Been through the rain several times and no issues so far.

I have finally started to install my modified (big) grill. Painful to remove OEM grill pieces and install new ones. Those clips that you have to bend back are just awful. But both new upper and lower sections are installed and nothing damaged or broken.

At the moment, trying to reseal everything, as I had to undo some of my previous sealing to remove the bumper assembly. I did notice that the OEM lower panel that seals up against the bottom of the radiator had the tape blown out. The tape broke loose along the radiator surface. With 50% sealed system, it was fine. But for the ~100% sealed system, seems the pressure was too high and it let go.

So I need to figure out how to make that sealing more robust. It was a 24.5" long x ~0.5" gap region or ~12 in^2 leakage area. Not small and would certainly impacted cooling.

Will post pics of the new grill when completely installed on the car. Cheers.
 

nbjeeptj

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So now after going to the track without any computer problems, I can report that on a sunny 85deg day during the 5th 20 min session after being heat soaked all day running the car at at least 9/10 the highest coolant temp and oil temp I saw on a real gauge was 222 ECT and 234 EOT. The changes I made to the program to keep the car from limiting top RPM based on calculated oil temp worked. I had the car many times with oil temp (calculated) just into the red zone, and with no limiting top RPM performance.
 

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So now after going to the track without any computer problems, I can report that on a sunny 85deg day during the 5th 20 min session after being heat soaked all day running the car at at least 9/10 the highest coolant temp and oil temp I saw on a real gauge was 222 ECT and 234 EOT. The changes I made to the program to keep the car from limiting top RPM based on calculated oil temp worked. I had the car many times with oil temp (calculated) just into the red zone, and with no limiting top RPM performance.
You are saying that Red (Oil 280F) calculated is 234 in Real life ? However most important question is what are your CHT temps as this is what is really important.
 

nbjeeptj

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I did not even think to pay attention to that. I will get that info on next track day. But to your question yes, in my case there is a huge difference between calculated and real. I have done just about everything possible to get these temps down race louvers, remove AC condenser, install ducting, and a massive oil cooler, all documented earlier in this thread.
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