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Track Time Limited due to High CHT

tosha

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For my setup it is was a all in one kind of deal once you know what to buy. The Watson racing radiator close out seals off the supply side of the radiator better than any home brew solution I could have come up with. It also is a mount for a series 9 60 row oil cooler, which seams to be the right size if you just don't want to worry about oil temp again. Mine was only 232 deg while pounding the hell out of it driving at least 9.5/10. The Watson set up works with any of the radiators that mount in factory location, mine just happens to be the same as NeverSatisfied's with the mishismoto. Then just put race louvers in the hood. For my setup you do have to get rid of the AC condenser coil but in my case it was not a huge deal as a track only car, and I took the compressor with it and lost a few pounds. Look back in this thread I have some pictures as I was installing it all. So for the quick list of parts it would be as follows:

Watson racing radiator close out kit

race louvers (I did the center and sides but probably could have just done center)

Radiator (You chose) mine was mishimoto

Oil cooler Setrab series 9 60 row or equivalent by Earls (mine is Earls due to availability)

Mishimoto oil filter sandwich adaptor ( mine was the thermostat controlled unit)

30 deg -12an hose end fitting for the filter plate side. I had to get mishimoto -10an fittings then straight adaptors to get to -12an

6' of -12an hose

-12an fitting to go in the oil cooler

one -12an hose end straight

one -12an 90deg hose end

In my case I also added gauges on the oil and coolant since the computer does not know what they really are.

I think at this point there is enough people that have tested this combo out to say that for sure if you do this handfull of things you can keep it cool, and there are options from complete fabricate it yourself to buying mostly ready made options.

If any one needs it I can get, add the part numbers to the list of parts, just let me know and I will do that.
Can Watson kit be modified easily enough so that AC condenser doesn't need to be removed? Or perhaps they have another kit for it. Also, you probably cannot answer this, but what about roush supercharged engines with intercooler? I guess the kit doesn't work for these either?
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TeeLew

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This is the front end of a BMW M2 Clubsport. It's a ~450hp car which is specifically meant for track duty, but is basically a street car. There are at least 5 different rads in this shot and there is at least one more on the back for the diff. Cooling a car on track is not such a trivial task for anyone.

20220529_115016.jpg
 

nbjeeptj

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Can Watson kit be modified easily enough so that AC condenser doesn't need to be removed? Or perhaps they have another kit for it. Also, you probably cannot answer this, but what about roush supercharged engines with intercooler? I guess the kit doesn't work for these either?
I have wondered the same thing on super charger. I don’t know what the extra cooler for super charger looks like, but I have been curious what it would take now that I have mine running so cool. Makes me think if you could package the cooler in there it could possibly stay cool with a moderate tune. I think for the AC question it could be modified to work but probably not with the big oil cooler installed. The oil cooler resides in a lot of the real estate where the condenser coil is, so it could probably be done but with that big of modification probably just as easy to start from scratch.
 
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Scootsmcgreggor

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I haven't found any magic solution to keeping these cars cool. I found it takes a combo of everything I've done. And I don't think it's unique to my '21 GT base. I was working through the same problems on my '19 PP2--I just never solved it before I sold that car.

The only thing I'd do different now is go with a Setrab series 9 50 row instead of a series 6. I'm pretty sure I could get it to fit. I'll take some pictures next time I pull the bumper off.
Yes setrab 948 fits fine. BTU rejection rate assuming middle of the provided range is 30% higher than the 650 heat exchanger.

AC355BA8-702C-4F28-B3BA-39CBADFE7CE8.jpeg
 

NeverSatisfied

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Whelp… looking at my car back at the house I noticed an entire side of my rad ducting had blown out letting a tremendous amount of air around my radiator.

Guess it’s not back straight at road atlanta proof yet.

But more encouraging at the temps I was seeing given the situation
 

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NeverSatisfied

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More details on that?
I assume it your DIY ducting?
What failed specifically and why?
What was your top speed on the back straight?
I was asking 3M aluminum tape to do more than it was designed to do. Need to fabricate some aluminum sheet and something a little more rigid.

Seeing ~145mph
 
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GTP

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In another attempt to source Mach1 parts for oil cooling, I called AutoNation WBL and provided the VIN for a '21 Mach1 A10. Eric was very patient and helpful. See attached parts list. (Ignore the first two parts: the first are the updated rear axle washers, and Eric said the oil filter pipe already comes with the oil cooler assembly.)

$190 for the OEM water/oil cooler, adapter plate, solenoid, and bolts. We then supply the lines, cooler, brackets, etc.

Thoughts?
 

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GTP

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Yes setrab 948 fits fine. BTU rejection rate assuming middle of the provided range is 30% higher than the 650 heat exchanger.

AC355BA8-702C-4F28-B3BA-39CBADFE7CE8.jpeg
Seems there are a few votes for the 948 cooler. But what about replacing the OEM trans cooler with a larger one beside the 948?

@Flyhalf :
  1. In your layout diagram below, do you believe Option 4 is best to put in the largest oil and trans coolers?
  2. Did you research to find the Derale high-flow 95k BTU 4” to offer more oil cooling than Setrab 948 or 650? Is it Part Number 61878 ? [dims below]
  3. Or did you research to find that it fits beside the Setrab 640 (trans cooler)?
oil-coolers-radiator-jpg.jpg


61878-dimensions.jpg
 
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67Fast_V

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Seems there are a few votes for the 948 cooler. But what about replacing the OEM trans cooler with a larger one beside the 948?

@Flyhalf :
  1. In your layout diagram below, do you believe Option 4 is best to put in the largest oil and trans coolers?
  2. Did you research to find the Derale high-flow 95k BTU 4” to offer more oil cooling than Setrab 948 or 650? Is it Part Number 61878 ? [dims below]
  3. Or did you research to find that it fits beside the Setrab 640 (trans cooler)?
oil-coolers-radiator-jpg.jpg


61878-dimensions.jpg
948 is a very big HX and seems like a good fit for the oil cooling. But you do have to carry the weight around. Can you get by with something smaller?? Not sure, have to test or at least run some calc's. Note: Neversatisfied has a slightly smaller oil cooler (setrab 650) which should be working well once system is fully sealed. That 4" derale is a monster. Not sure that much is needed.

Flyhalf commented awhile back on the A10 trans cooling that he is using the setrab 934 and is working great for him w/ his bypass mod.

On the Mach 1 oil and trans cooling, I haven't seen pics of the HX's. My understanding is that the oil to air cooler is in the driver side "cheek" and the trans coolers are in the (1) passenger side cheek & (2) same location as the GT (sandwiched between cond and rad) in front of the condenser, lower section. But I'm not 100%.

If anyone has photo's of the Mach 1 coolers, would appreciate seeing them. Curious of the sizing and confirm location(s). And wondering if the hardcore track folks are finding the oem coolant, oil, and A10 cooling systems are adequate?

On your Mach 1 parts list, nothing wrong w/ the oem oil adaptor and such and can go in that direction. But most seem to go with the aftermarket oil adaptors when installing a remote oil to air cooler. Maybe a little less money and gives easy location for temp and pressure measurements.
 
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GTP

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<snip>
If I need more oil or trans cooling, I will look to lay the HX flat in front of the condenser/radiator and allow the air to exit inside the underbelly tray and out the back of the tray under the car. This way the heat released from the oil/trans cooler does not impact the radiator heat rejection capability (not increase CHT).
I wonder if moving the OEM transmission cooler to the "Harrop position" - i.e. horizontal in the belly pan in front of the radiator stack - would work well?
  • High pressure air in front of the bumper combines with underbody airflow under the nose to generate good flow through the cooler.
  • The OEM cooler would not discharge its own heat to the coolant radiator.
  • Then a large oil HX could be placed in the stack.
  • Maximum cooler stackup would be 3 coolers: AC / Oil / Coolant, same as before the mod.
 
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GTP

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Another newb question:
For the sandwich adapter options (Mishi, Ford, mmr, Setrab, etc.), does the OEM water/oil cooler remain bolted to the block? If so, then adding the new oil HX implies I would have BOTH water and air cooling for the oil, correct?
 

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Another newb question:
For the sandwich adapter options (Mishi, Ford, mmr, Setrab, etc.), does the OEM water/oil cooler remain bolted to the block? If so, then adding the new oil HX implies I would have BOTH water and air cooling for the oil, correct?
It say no in fact the oem water/oil cooler is known to fail at least on early model cars. So the biggest benefit to going with aftermarket air oil cooler is to get rid of the OEM one and save your engine from a catastrophic fail of the OEM unit.
 

NeverSatisfied

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Another newb question:
For the sandwich adapter options (Mishi, Ford, mmr, Setrab, etc.), does the OEM water/oil cooler remain bolted to the block? If so, then adding the new oil HX implies I would have BOTH water and air cooling for the oil, correct?
You remove it, it’s got an Allen key bore in the threaded tube. Then get the threaded adapter for one without the cooler and snag a lower radiator hose from Improved Racing
 

thornclaw

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as far as trans coolers go for automatics, which is the most effective? i have a mishimoto on order.
there is also a pwr but it is a tube/fin design. the setrab one is not plug and play so i didnt go for it. can anyone attest to the temp drop with the mishimoto? i went into limp mode at RA a few weeks ago from a trans overheat. 6r80 here.
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