Total Mustang sales 2019 figure

[bootlegger]

I don't want a front heavy design with a supercharger on it. I'd prefer not to have turbos either if it could be avoided.

That supercharger (or turbos) either adds a ton of cost to the car. Simpler - reduce costs - keep the price low. That is what I think Ford should be trying to do with the Mustang.

The point was that the Coyote wouldn't be even close to the limits with 500whp NA. Ford could easily do it for $2-3k more, but that would put them closer to the emissions line (or over) and reduce fuel economy. Personally, I am happy with an est. 470-475whp in my car. I will eventually get headers and push closer to 500whp, with no fear about reliability. If you are willing to do the work, you can get where you want with the current engine.

Your aversion to forced induction and DIG is going to put you in an awkward position car shopping in 5 -10 years. .

Sponsored

 

[bootlegger]

I'm not sure when this conversation about Mustang sales for 2020 and beyond to a back and forth about the Coyote. Honestly what difference does it make? The Coyote for better (my opinion), of worse, is what we have. We are not getting a new V8, ever. The world is just not going in our direction. As far as HP, also what does it matter? We went from 435 to 460. Yeah, I feel that everyday driving up and down RT17 here in MB. So long as the number remain competitive it's all OK. Besides anyone ever hear of sandbagging? Do you really think a Coyote couldn’t do 500WHP with a little massaging? Ford will do what it need to do, when it needs to do it.

I think you are replying to the wrong person. Of course Ford could make a 500whp Coyote. As stated above, I think they didn't push it that far because of cost, fuel economy, and emissions. I love this engine, personally. You are 100% correct that Ford isn't going to develop a new V8 just for the Mustang.

The conversation went off track when someone was repeating myths about my industry and the technology I work with.

 

[Hack]

Your aversion to forced induction and DIG is going to put you in an awkward position car shopping in 5 -10 years. .

Ehh, I was daily driving modified 80s cars as recently as 2011. I'm not afraid to drive an older vehicle. Heck, my current summer fun car is a 04 Z06. I'm an engine guy, and when the Coyote came out I decided Ford had finally made an engine in a new vehicle that was superior to a typical (slightly) modified 80s small block. So I had to try some new cars. But I'm a little bored with the Coyote now and I want more. The Voodoo is great but it would be cool to see Ford put an engine in the Mustang that is another big improvement over the Coyote they've been using since 2011.

 

[Strokerswild]

I am saying that Ford should be trying to keep their costs and prices down if they want to sell lots of vehicles and do well financially. Maybe I'm wrong about it, but I see the Mustang going out of my price range. And I think I'm in a decent financial position compared to most people. If a car crazy person like me feels priced out of the market - I see that as an issue for Ford.

This.

I personally won't buy a new vehicle unless I can put enough down on it to get a sub-$400 payment on a maximum 60-month term, and then pay ahead to knock it out before the bumper to bumper warranty is up. I do pretty well financially, but I won't strap myself when it comes to a vehicle and in general cars are getting too expensive for many (most?) to buy new.

People don't seem to plan for dire straits either these days. Back in 2003 the company I worked for went belly up, and I ended up pulling up stakes and moving for other opportunities. It was a rough and stressful year, and even though I had little debt at the time things were thin and it was definitely a learning experience. You have to be able to float that boat with nothing, and a big car note doesn't fly.

 

[Bikeman315]

This.

I personally won't buy a new vehicle unless I can put enough down on it to get a sub-$400 payment on a maximum 60-month term, and then pay ahead to knock it out before the bumper to bumper warranty is up. I do pretty well financially, but I won't strap myself when it comes to a vehicle and in general cars are getting too expensive for many (most?) to buy new.

People don't seem to plan for dire straits either these days. Back in 2003 the company I worked for went belly up, and I ended up pulling up stakes and moving for other opportunities. It was a rough and stressful year, and even though I had little debt at the time things were thin and it was definitely a learning experience. You have to be able to float that boat with nothing, and a big car note doesn't fly.

And here is the Catch-22. Ford needs people to buy new Mustangs. We, the enthusiast, need Ford to sell more new Mustangs. Yet the costs continue to rise, pricing a lot of folks out of the new car market. Any major change to the current car, new V8 engine, lighter weight, etc. will only raise the cost not lower it. So you want to lower the price. Nope that will not work either. Lower cost = less margin means less need to continue the car. So what will help? Keeping the Mustang name alive and well through other models. Blasphemy you say. Honestly what other choices do we have if we want a S650.

 

[Hack]

And here is the Catch-22. Ford needs people to buy new Mustangs. We, the enthusiast, need Ford to sell more new Mustangs. Yet the costs continue to rise, pricing a lot of folks out of the new car market. Any major change to the current car, new V8 engine, lighter weight, etc. will only raise the cost not lower it. So you want to lower the price. Nope that will not work either. Lower cost = less margin means less need to continue the car. So what will help? Keeping the Mustang name alive and well through other models. Blasphemy you say. Honestly what other choices do we have if we want a S650.

Ford has to make cost effective improvements that provide the most perceived value to us while keeping the cost low for Ford.

Stagnation is not a good option in my opinion. And slight improvements that cause large increases in cost are not great (despite what some say I think direct injection cost a lot in research and development for not much improvement). And I wouldn't advocate large improvements that also cost a lot (blower/turbo).

 

[BmacIL]

And here is the Catch-22. Ford needs people to buy new Mustangs. We, the enthusiast, need Ford to sell more new Mustangs. Yet the costs continue to rise, pricing a lot of folks out of the new car market. Any major change to the current car, new V8 engine, lighter weight, etc. will only raise the cost not lower it. So you want to lower the price. Nope that will not work either. Lower cost = less margin means less need to continue the car. So what will help? Keeping the Mustang name alive and well through other models. Blasphemy you say. Honestly what other choices do we have if we want a S650.

A vehicle that shares nothing with the S550 does zero to help keep the 2+2 sports coupe costs down. That's not how this works.

 

[Bikeman315]

A vehicle that shares nothing with the S550 does zero to help keep the 2+2 sports coupe costs down. That's not how this works.

You misunderstand. Trying to keep costs down is a noble idea but not practical. What we need is to keep the name Mustang relevant. A singular high powered two door sports coupe is not the way. Mustang needs to become a Halo brand, important enough for management and the bean counters to keep it around. We all know what that means, like it or not.

 

[BmacIL]

You misunderstand. Trying to keep costs down is a noble idea but not practical. What we need is to keep the name Mustang relevant. A singular high powered two door sports coupe is not the way. Mustang needs to become a Halo brand, important enough for management and the bean counters to keep it around. We all know what that means, like it or not.

It's an interesting idea, but will fail.

 

[Bikeman315]

It's an interesting idea, but will fail.

If it does you can pretty much kiss the S650 goodbye. I certainly hope I’m 100% wrong but with current Ford management anything is possible.

 

[Sigma6]

A vehicle that shares nothing with the S550 does zero to help keep the 2+2 sports coupe costs down. That's not how this works.

adding to the above: Nothing is going to change. This is and will always be on path. Cost will rise as long as it’s union fed & designs and model changes will always occur as long as theirs white collar workers. WC hate unions because they put the squeeze on their own pocket each renewal & BC hate WC because everytime there’s a new design or unit or discontinuation... it means changes. Factory lines don’t like change.

 

[Hack]

A vehicle that shares nothing with the S550 does zero to help keep the 2+2 sports coupe costs down. That's not how this works.

Agreed, and I personally would be fine with continued face lifts on the existing chassis if that helps Ford keep the price down. Despite what some say - I think the S550 chassis is good. At least it's good enough to make the car fun to drive. What would sell me is an awesome new power plant at a decent price. And I think a lot of other Mustang buyers are into engines as well. I think a slight chassis change is less of a selling point.

 

[Hack]

And I still think an engine that would sell Mustangs would also sell F150s.

 

[13GetThere]

Hey give me that whip. I wanna beat on this horse for a while.

Okay, I just want to throw out some food for thought. Just looking at the sales figures provided by Bikeman315, sales for the Mustang look to be pretty constant since the introduction of the S197 with peaks occuring at the introduction of the new body styles.

The thing that attracted me to the Mustang was the Coyote engine with it's 32 valve overhead cams and Aluminum block and heads producing more power per cubic inch than the competing 16 valve iron block engines at the time.

When I bought my 2019 PP2 in November, there were 4 GTs that had my interest at the out of town dealership that I was looking at (there was nothing locally that I wanted), one was a GT PP2 with 3 or4 option packages, one was a GT Premium PP2 with 3 option packages, one was a GT PP2 with active exhaust as the only option, and one was a GT PP1 with A10, Magneride, and active exhaust. These were the cars I was interested in in order. The first one sold before my local dealer could reserve it and I bought my second choice which was the Premium PP2. I checked the dealership last week and the GT PP2 and GT PP1 were still available. In other words, the more expensive of the performance cars with options sold, and the least expensive with almost no options didn't. The funny thing is, if I had ordered the car, it would have been the GT PP2 with no options.

 

[Joe B.]

A brand new, bare bones "get one while you still can" 3.7 put me in my Pony. No DI, reg gas, and the price was right.

Sponsored