Throw out bearing questions...

Dark Pony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2019
Threads
26
Messages
128
Reaction score
25
Location
Ohio
First Name
Ramsey
Vehicle(s)
2015 mustang GT
I posted this in the transmission section, however doesn't seem to have as much traffic over there so I'm posting this over here. Hopefully I can get some advice from people knowledgeable on the subject.

I installed my clutch last summer after having had my trans rebuilt. When it came to putting everything back together, I did not bench bleed, or do any kind of bleeding on the TOB/Slave cylinder. I was under the assumption that it did not need bled in the traditional way as it didn't have a bleeder on it, and what I had read about bleeding the clutch was just pump it a million times and it's good. Well, after doing that, and getting what felt like a decent pedal, I went out and drove it. It seemed to shift merely OK, but definitely not nearly as good as I would have hoped, however I didn't really know what to expect as the clutch was new, had a new calimer stage 2 trans, mgw shifter, and everything needed to be broken in. I was also on the clutch break in miles so I didn't want to go hard for a while. Once everything was broken in I got on it and found that it wasn't shifting right at all. Extremely hard to get out of and into gear and such. Decided to go with a stainless steel clutch line, and while installing that we bled the lines going to the slave cylinder in a more traditional way, as we left the line disconnected from the slave and pumped fluid through the line until no air came out, just fluid, and then connected the line to the slave line. After this shifting was VERY much improved for day to day driving, however at higher rpms it still struggles to get out of and into gear, and I am unable to hit the next gear when I use my wot box. It's like the gear isn't even there. So my questions are is it possible that there is air still in the slave cylinder and could it cause issues like this? Or would the air have worked its way out by now? I've looked at vaccum bleeding the MC however I'm not sure it would be able to pull air all the way from the slave, does anyone know if that will work? If not, other than dropping the trans and pushing on the slave is there any way to bleed the slave? If I drop the trans I will be replacing the slave, is it better to stick with Ford, or should I replace with the mcleod unit or exedy? Any info would be helpful. Thank you.

 

sk47

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Threads
16
Messages
2,482
Reaction score
1,021
Location
North Eastern TN
First Name
Jeff
Vehicle(s)
Chevy Silverado & Nissan Sentra SE
Hello; I have looked at you thread a couple of times. I am interested in the question but do not have any good information. The last time I replaced a hydraulic clutch system was many years ago on an F-150. That set up did have a bleed screw at the slave cylinder. So if I read correctly your setup does not have a bleed screw at the slave cylinder? If so, then I am guessing the lines run pretty much vertical and the air is expected to rise on it's own. Those tiny bubbles can take a long while to migrate or form into bigger bubbles. I decided to follow the thread to learn about how the system works.

I do have a question. Is it possible you need a shim under the slave cylinder? I watched a video of a hydraulic clutch system being installed. It was an aftermarket system so had to be adjusted to fit the application. Since the slave cylinder has a preset range of motion, to adjust it required shims to get it into the sweet range of motion. This is a very wild guess and very likely to be wrong.

I will follow the thread and do wish you good luck.
 
OP
OP

Dark Pony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2019
Threads
26
Messages
128
Reaction score
25
Location
Ohio
First Name
Ramsey
Vehicle(s)
2015 mustang GT
Hello; I have looked at you thread a couple of times. I am interested in the question but do not have any good information. The last time I replaced a hydraulic clutch system was many years ago on an F-150. That set up did have a bleed screw at the slave cylinder. So if I read correctly your setup does not have a bleed screw at the slave cylinder? If so, then I am guessing the lines run pretty much vertical and the air is expected to rise on it's own. Those tiny bubbles can take a long while to migrate or form into bigger bubbles. I decided to follow the thread to learn about how the system works.

I do have a question. Is it possible you need a shim under the slave cylinder? I watched a video of a hydraulic clutch system being installed. It was an aftermarket system so had to be adjusted to fit the application. Since the slave cylinder has a preset range of motion, to adjust it required shims to get it into the sweet range of motion. This is a very wild guess and very likely to be wrong.

I will follow the thread and do wish you good luck.
Thanks for the reply. No, I don't belive it needs a shim as the clutch didn't come with any, so I would think it is designed to work with a factory TOB which was used. The bearing isn't vertical though, it lays horizontal with the transmission on the input shaft.
 

sk47

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Threads
16
Messages
2,482
Reaction score
1,021
Location
North Eastern TN
First Name
Jeff
Vehicle(s)
Chevy Silverado & Nissan Sentra SE
Thanks for the reply. No, I don't belive it needs a shim as the clutch didn't come with any, so I would think it is designed to work with a factory TOB which was used. The bearing isn't vertical though, it lays horizontal with the transmission on the input shaft.
Hello; I was not clear. I mean the tubes from the clutch master cylinder must be vertical to allow for air bubbles to rise up over time. Yes the slave it self pushes horizontal.
 

sk47

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Threads
16
Messages
2,482
Reaction score
1,021
Location
North Eastern TN
First Name
Jeff
Vehicle(s)
Chevy Silverado & Nissan Sentra SE
Hello; Attention @Cobra Jet . I am not up to date on the hydraulic clutch master and slave cylinder so am not able to help. Do you have any ideas as to who he might get good advice from?
 

db252

Equinsu Ocha
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Threads
44
Messages
1,467
Reaction score
852
Location
Bay Area, CA
Vehicle(s)
16 GT Premium/PP/Nav
Unfortunately bench bleeding the slave IS important. It is the most beneficial way to remove all air and really only the best. 1000 clutch pedal pushes will do only so much as will the Ford process for pulling vacuum through the master cylinder. I’ve pulled more mt82’s than I care to count for clutch jobs, swaps and Tremec’s as well. I’ve also messed with ’bleedable’ slaves but I always come back to recommending a factory Ford one. No shims should be needed on the MT82 unless a different spec’d slave is used. Clutch stack height can also affect this but if your using factory or a reputable company they take this into account to work with stock components.
 
OP
OP

Dark Pony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2019
Threads
26
Messages
128
Reaction score
25
Location
Ohio
First Name
Ramsey
Vehicle(s)
2015 mustang GT
Unfortunately bench bleeding the slave IS important. It is the most beneficial way to remove all air and really only the best. 1000 clutch pedal pushes will do only so much as will the Ford process for pulling vacuum through the master cylinder. I’ve pulled more mt82’s than I care to count for clutch jobs, swaps and Tremec’s as well. I’ve also messed with ’bleedable’ slaves but I always come back to recommending a factory Ford one. No shims should be needed on the MT82 unless a different spec’d slave is used. Clutch stack height can also affect this but if your using factory or a reputable company they take this into account to work with stock components.
Thank you very much for the reply. In your experience, could the issues that I've been having be a result of air in the slave? I was going to replace the slave today, but decided that I want to replace the entire clutch (again) if I'm gonna drop the trans again.
 

db252

Equinsu Ocha
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Threads
44
Messages
1,467
Reaction score
852
Location
Bay Area, CA
Vehicle(s)
16 GT Premium/PP/Nav
Absolutely. Of course other things can influence but in your case the complaint is very common.
I’ve seen pressure plates that weren’t mounted correctly with all mounting bolts not tightened down.
The most popular problem is air in the hydraulic system.
 
OP
OP

Dark Pony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2019
Threads
26
Messages
128
Reaction score
25
Location
Ohio
First Name
Ramsey
Vehicle(s)
2015 mustang GT
Absolutely. Of course other things can influence but in your case the complaint is very common.
I’ve seen pressure plates that weren’t mounted correctly with all mounting bolts not tightened down.
The most popular problem is air in the hydraulic system.
Well, I'm pretty sure we tightened down the PP correctly, so I believe if anything it's a bit of air in the line somewhere. It's just so strange that it shifts fine most of the time.
 

db252

Equinsu Ocha
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Threads
44
Messages
1,467
Reaction score
852
Location
Bay Area, CA
Vehicle(s)
16 GT Premium/PP/Nav
I’m sure you did. Just a unique experience.
You do have variables; new trans, clutch and mgw.
 

khalismatic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2016
Threads
6
Messages
81
Reaction score
18
Location
Houston TX
First Name
Sam
Vehicle(s)
2016 Mustang GT Non-PP, 6-Speed MT-82
Please let us know how it goes. More specifically, if you only bled the TOB or if you replaced some other stuff as well. I have a Spec Twin Disc clutch and I am experiencing the same problems you've mentioned. I don't think my TOB was bench bled.
 
OP
OP

Dark Pony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2019
Threads
26
Messages
128
Reaction score
25
Location
Ohio
First Name
Ramsey
Vehicle(s)
2015 mustang GT
Please let us know how it goes. More specifically, if you only bled the TOB or if you replaced some other stuff as well. I have a Spec Twin Disc clutch and I am experiencing the same problems you've mentioned. I don't think my TOB was bench bled.
I ended up buying a brand new TOB and lethal performance lpxhd twin disk clutch. I hope to have them both in this weekend. For me, even if the issues went away I don't think I'd like the engagement of the clutch, i think that's more the cerametallic disks more than anything on that front. That said, once I get the trans out and remove the old TOB I can let you know if there was air in it or not. Some people have told me they think the air would have worked its way out but I have my doubts.
 

silverbullet85

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Threads
15
Messages
363
Reaction score
160
Location
San Diego
Vehicle(s)
2019 Gt procharged lund tuned 4.75 pulley pump 91
You said you replaced the clutch, you bought a new Ford one? What cluch do you have
 
OP
OP

Dark Pony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2019
Threads
26
Messages
128
Reaction score
25
Location
Ohio
First Name
Ramsey
Vehicle(s)
2015 mustang GT
You said you replaced the clutch, you bought a new Ford one? What cluch do you have
I bought a new clutch but I have not put it on the car yet. It is an LPX HD.
 

khalismatic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2016
Threads
6
Messages
81
Reaction score
18
Location
Houston TX
First Name
Sam
Vehicle(s)
2016 Mustang GT Non-PP, 6-Speed MT-82
Are you going to do that on jack stands?
 

 
173 - AWE - 1
Top