Throttle House puts the 2020 GT500, Camaro ZL1 and Challenger Hellcat Redeye on the track

[ZRacerLE]

You like wearing tutus and chasing butterflies.

Ladies and Gentlemen: page 26 of this thread

Sponsored

 

[MaskedRacerX]

i gotta go with the gloss black, tough call but i think the color scheme of iconic and black is better than iconic and almost black/ triple black brused.. any othe rcolor and i would

and thanks.. content gonna get interesting real soon here.. if it ever gets out of G-damn PPF/ceramic. when i said no rush i didnt mean take 3 weeks lol

Yeah, the finish is awesome, but I get wanting something that ties together the rest of your color scheme. Those would be killer on an all black car, to create a little contrast.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Ladies and Gentlemen: page 26 of this thread

27!!

 

[ZRacerLE]

27!!

Your quote was from page 26 you silly goose.

 

[9secondko]

It was modified now? How?

3 out of 4 picked the GT500, what truth are they trying to skew?

Lets start with the tires. Not factory stock. That’s modified.

and since they let that slide, it begs the question of what else was modified. Did it have a tune? Etc.

I didn’t see any vetting.

And if they are willing to give the Camaro better tires than stock, you already know why the Mustang was allowed to run on bad rubber.

not a legit. comparison.

still waiting.

as far as “oh, but the 500 got the consolation prize of ‘I like this best’” is a way of copping out of the fact that they ran a Mustang in bad tires vs a Camaro on upgraded tires (at the least). They know people are looking at numbers. Not someone’s “but I like this anyway” comments.

 

[Minn19]

Lets start with the tires. Not factory stock. That’s modified.

and since they let that slide, it begs the question of what else was modified. Did it have a tune? Etc.

I didn’t see any vetting.

And if they are willing to give the Camaro better tires than stock, you already know why the Mustang was allowed to run on bad rubber.

not a legit. comparison.

still waiting.

as far as “oh, but the 500 got the consolation prize of ‘I like this best’” is a way of copping out of the fact that they ran a Mustang in bad tires vs a Camaro on upgraded tires (at the least). They know people are looking at numbers. Not someone’s “but I like this anyway” comments.

Mismatched tires is a better than stock mod? We can’t even tell if it is Cup 2s or PSS/PS4S for sure. Either way even if it is Cup 2s, they are sounding more like that is a downgrade if anything from the stock 3Rs. Also, if you want to go by the pic, the tires on the 500 don’t look that bad. We’ve all seen much much worse at track days.

 

[thill444]

On one hand we have the same people praising Randy and saying that he would never sandbag a Ford vs a Chevy (which I don't personally believe he did).

On the other hand those same people seem to dismiss Randy's direct feedback that the tires on the GT500 were cooked for the track and that the GT500 would be faster on fresh tires than a ZL1 1LE. It's all right there on video, Randy said it.

You can't pick and choose what you want to believe from Randy. You either do or you don't.

 

[Jmeo]

On one hand we have the same people praising Randy and saying that he would never sandbag a Ford vs a Chevy (which I don't personally believe he did).

On the other hand those same people seem to dismiss Randy's direct feedback that the tires on the GT500 were cooked for the track and that the GT500 would be faster on fresh tires than a ZL1 1LE. It's all right there on video, Randy said it.

You can't pick and choose what you want to believe from Randy. You either do or you don't.

Bingo

 

[Minn19]

On one hand we have the same people praising Randy and saying that he would never sandbag a Ford vs a Chevy (which I don't personally believe he did).

On the other hand those same people seem to dismiss Randy's direct feedback that the tires on the GT500 were cooked for the track and that the GT500 would be faster on fresh tires than a ZL1 1LE. It's all right there on video, Randy said it.

You can't pick and choose what you want to believe from Randy. You either do or you don't.

I'm not sure if this is directed at me or not, but I haven't dismissed it and believe Randy's assessment of the tires. Unfortunately we don't know by how much etc.

People here want to go on pics and we have no idea if they were truly tracked like that or not.

For the third or fourth time I've said this. We need a GT500 on fresh stock tires with all aero and track alignment/wing setting vs an A10 ZLE on fresh stock tires in its track alignment.

With all that being said, we have a couple of very vocal people saying the GT500 should dominate nearly everything. But, nearly every magazine/Youtube test or real world race we are seeing it doesn't. It just got beat 2 out of 3 times per the slips timewise in the other thread on a drag strip to a Redeye. Every time it loses to something it is the tires, aero wasn't installed or adjusted correctly or the other cars alignment mod, bad/sanbagged driving, tires were not fresh enough, the other car is mysteriously modded with other things etc etc.

 

[martinjlm]

On one hand we have the same people praising Randy and saying that he would never sandbag a Ford vs a Chevy (which I don't personally believe he did).

On the other hand those same people seem to dismiss Randy's direct feedback that the tires on the GT500 were cooked for the track and that the GT500 would be faster on fresh tires than a ZL1 1LE. It's all right there on video, Randy said it.

You can't pick and choose what you want to believe from Randy. You either do or you don't.

I look at the tire situation this way..... For context you have to listen to everything Randy said in that moments he was driving the GT500. Starting at 24:27 “It’s got Michelin Cup 2s on it. They’re not terribly fresh. Almost every tire will give you the best lap when it is brand new, with nothing but a warm up lap on it. Oh my god, this thing is fast. Mr. Shelby would be proud. Down boy, sit! Down boy, sit!....A little antsy.... A little more gentle with my inputs....oh, there’s grip...this thing’s fast...Oh my lord. It definitely feels like a hundred more horsepower than the Camaro. They’re not exaggerating that number. That carbon package with the carbon fiber wheels. You can feel that in the handling. Makes the car turn better. I hate to pull over.”

When describing how the Camaro won. “The Mustang arrived on tires that were well cooked. The Camaro is too good to be given that kind of a tire advantage.”

Now, the way I interpreted all this is

• Both cars on fresh tires, CFTP wins. By how much depends on the track. On shorter tracks, the ZLE may still win because of the tuning of the Alpha chassis. We have yet to see a test that proves or disproves this. Looking forward to it, though.
• Randy is smart enough to NOT drive a 760 hp car at high speed on suspect tires. That would be unsafe. The fact that he says, while driving, “oh, there’s grip” is an indication that they are not worn out. But they were clearly sub-optimal, so he would not get his best time out of it.
• The implication here is that if a CFTP and a ZLE show up to the same track at the same time, with drivers of equivalent skill, the one with the fresher tires is most likely to win.

Now, one concern I have is that at some other point in this or another video, someone pointed out that Cup 2s are notorious for having a couple “hero laps” in them, then they drop off. This is what I think Randy meant by “well cooked”. They had already been driven through that optimal point. They weren’t bald or ready for duty as trackside barriers. They were beyond the “warm up lap plus a couple hot laps” condition. They were in that drop off range.


Nonsequitor...Anyone else notice that Randy has green tape over a sponsor logo on his left bicep? I wonder what sponsor isn’t ponying up (pun intended)

 

[ZRacerLE]

I look at the tire situation this way..... For context you have to listen to everything Randy said in that moments he was driving the GT500. Starting at 24:27 “It’s got Michelin Cup 2s on it. They’re not terribly fresh. Almost every tire will give you the best lap when it is brand new, with nothing but a warm up lap on it. Oh my god, this thing is fast. Mr. Shelby would be proud. Down boy, sit! Down boy, sit!....A little antsy.... A little more gentle with my inputs....oh, there’s grip...this thing’s fast...Oh my lord. It definitely feels like a hundred more horsepower than the Camaro. They’re not exaggerating that number. That carbon package with the carbon fiber wheels. You can feel that in the handling. Makes the car turn better. I hate to pull over.”

When describing how the Camaro won. “The Mustang arrived on tires that were well cooked. The Camaro is too good to be given that kind of a tire advantage.”

Now, the way I interpreted all this is

• Both cars on fresh tires, CFTP wins. By how much depends on the track. On shorter tracks, the ZLE may still win because of the tuning of the Alpha chassis. We have yet to see a test that proves or disproves this. Looking forward to it, though.
• Randy is smart enough to NOT drive a 760 hp car at high speed on suspect tires. That would be unsafe. The fact that he says, while driving, “oh, there’s grip” is an indication that they are not worn out. But they were clearly sub-optimal, so he would not get his best time out of it.
• The implication here is that if a CFTP and a ZLE show up to the same track at the same time, with drivers of equivalent skill, the one with the fresher tires is most likely to win.

Now, one concern I have is that at some other point in this or another video, someone pointed out that Cup 2s are notorious for having a couple “hero laps” in them, then they drop off. This is what I think Randy meant by “well cooked”. They had already been driven through that optimal point. They weren’t bald or ready for duty as trackside barriers. They were beyond the “warm up lap plus a couple hot laps” condition. They were in that drop off range.


Nonsequitor...Anyone else notice that Randy has green tape over a sponsor logo on his left bicep? I wonder what sponsor isn’t ponying up (pun intended)

Excellent post

 

[Laststandard]

On one hand we have the same people praising Randy and saying that he would never sandbag a Ford vs a Chevy (which I don't personally believe he did).

On the other hand those same people seem to dismiss Randy's direct feedback that the tires on the GT500 were cooked for the track and that the GT500 would be faster on fresh tires than a ZL1 1LE. It's all right there on video, Randy said it.

You can't pick and choose what you want to believe from Randy. You either do or you don't.

Reverse it, for the tinfoil hats here that say RP sandbags all the Fords, yet take his claim as gospel that the GT500 would win on fresh tires.

Randy's a professional driver, who works with multiple manufacturers. Why would he risk his career when there's no benefit to gained by sandbagging a car?

 

[thill444]

I look at the tire situation this way..... For context you have to listen to everything Randy said in that moments he was driving the GT500. Starting at 24:27 “It’s got Michelin Cup 2s on it. They’re not terribly fresh. Almost every tire will give you the best lap when it is brand new, with nothing but a warm up lap on it. Oh my god, this thing is fast. Mr. Shelby would be proud. Down boy, sit! Down boy, sit!....A little antsy.... A little more gentle with my inputs....oh, there’s grip...this thing’s fast...Oh my lord. It definitely feels like a hundred more horsepower than the Camaro. They’re not exaggerating that number. That carbon package with the carbon fiber wheels. You can feel that in the handling. Makes the car turn better. I hate to pull over.”

When describing how the Camaro won. “The Mustang arrived on tires that were well cooked. The Camaro is too good to be given that kind of a tire advantage.”

Now, the way I interpreted all this is

• Both cars on fresh tires, CFTP wins. By how much depends on the track. On shorter tracks, the ZLE may still win because of the tuning of the Alpha chassis. We have yet to see a test that proves or disproves this. Looking forward to it, though.
• Randy is smart enough to NOT drive a 760 hp car at high speed on suspect tires. That would be unsafe. The fact that he says, while driving, “oh, there’s grip” is an indication that they are not worn out. But they were clearly sub-optimal, so he would not get his best time out of it.
• The implication here is that if a CFTP and a ZLE show up to the same track at the same time, with drivers of equivalent skill, the one with the fresher tires is most likely to win.

Now, one concern I have is that at some other point in this or another video, someone pointed out that Cup 2s are notorious for having a couple “hero laps” in them, then they drop off. This is what I think Randy meant by “well cooked”. They had already been driven through that optimal point. They weren’t bald or ready for duty as trackside barriers. They were beyond the “warm up lap plus a couple hot laps” condition. They were in that drop off range.


Nonsequitor...Anyone else notice that Randy has green tape over a sponsor logo on his left bicep? I wonder what sponsor isn’t ponying up (pun intended)

All that seems reasonable. The bottomline is the Throttle House review was fun and entertaining but the lap times are not really gospel. Questionable aero and tires on the Ford. Doesn't even matter whose fault it is at this point people should just enjoy the video for what it is.

Like I said before someone who wants to buy a ZLE or a GT500 or a Hellcat is likely not going to be swayed by this review. I think all three of these cars are going to appeal to different people IMHO. I have owned GM products, currently own an FCA product (19 Jeep Wrangler) and a 18 GT350. I have had good and bad experiences with all the companies, but more good than bad. Jeep gets a bad rap, but we have put 9K miles on our Wrangler in 6 months and it has been rock solid.

 

[ZRacerLE]

All that seems reasonable. The bottomline is the Throttle House review was fun and entertaining but the lap times are not really gospel. Questionable aero and tires on the Ford. Doesn't even matter whose fault it is at this point people should just enjoy the video for what it is.

Like I said before someone who wants to buy a ZLE or a GT500 or a Hellcat is likely not going to be swayed by this review. I think all three of these cars are going to appeal to different people IMHO. I have owned GM products, currently own an FCA product (19 Jeep Wrangler) and a 18 GT350. I have had good and bad experiences with all the companies, but more good than bad. Jeep gets a bad rap, but we have put 9K miles on our Wrangler in 6 months and it has been rock solid.

This!

 

[Armageddon Turbo]

Great video! The GT500 sure is a monster!

Sponsored