Thoughts on the new Odin TVS blower making less then Whipple TQ?

[engineermike]

I wonder if this would help explain why the results from this particular car aren’t consistent with other results...

Probably more to do with the often-overlooked pulley size.

Vmp made 590 ftlb using a 3” upper pulley and Boostane. They made 555 ftlb using a 3.46” pulley and Boostane. Without Boostane it made 48 whp less and also less torque most assuredly.

For comparison, the roush 2650 kits use a 3.15” upper pulley and Edelbrock stage 1 uses 3.25”. Edelbrock stage 2 uses the equivalent of a 3.05” upper. Whipple stage 1 uses the equivalent of a 3.5” upper and Whipple stage 2 would be 3.42”.

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[80FoxCoupe]

The track will show which car has the most Hp (all else being equal).
It won’t show which car has the most torque, which means it won’t show you which car will throw you back in your seat the hardest.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again but with a better explanation this time.

Car A makes 600tq at 3000rpm (343hp) Torque drops off to 500 by 7000rpm (666hp)
Car B makes peak torque of 500 at 8k (761hp)

Car B is pushing 100 hp more than Car A and will clearly win the race but car B pushes you into your seat 20% harder at 3000 rpm than car A does at any point in it’s rpm range.

Torque is what makes your passenger shit their pants as their body tries to end up in the back seat, Hp is what gets you across the line sooner.

Acceleration = Force x mass. Hp is NOT a force. Torque is the force. Hp is what you arrive at when you apply torque over a time period.

HP wins the race!

 

[Burkey]

HP wins the race!

It absolutely does!
The underlying assumption seems to be that winning races is the only metric of performance.
I tend to disagree wholeheartedly,
If you’re building a race car, sure.
Daily driver that makes you laugh all the way to work each day without having to wring it’s neck? Maybe not so much.

 

[engineermike]

This argument sounds familiar. Burkey needs 7.3.

 

[Stymee]

There running that test in STD correction too

Less power corrected

 

[80FoxCoupe]

It absolutely does!
The underlying assumption seems to be that winning races is the only metric of performance.
I tend to disagree wholeheartedly,
If you’re building a race car, sure.
Daily driver that makes you laugh all the way to work each day without having to wring it’s neck? Maybe not so much.

Yea, that would suck to have to rev an engine that was designed for high RPM performance. Though my car runs 9.0s at 150, it's turd with no torque and will not throw u back in the seat.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

This argument sounds familiar. Burkey needs 7.3.

Just go diesel!

 

[Burkey]

This argument sounds familiar. Burkey needs 7.3.

Pretty much.
I’ll just wait for a Coyote stroker kit instead though

 

[SolarFlare]

Winning races puts a smile on my face. 7500 is not wringing a coyotes neck. That’s factory rpm

 

[Burkey]

Yea, that would suck to have to rev an engine that was designed for high RPM performance. Though my car runs 9.0s at 150, it's turd with no torque and will not throw u back in the seat.

I think you missed the point somewhat.
I wasn’t asserting that a centri or a Whipple (insert literally ANY combination here) can’t throw you back in the seat.
I’m saying that TORQUE IS WHAT THROWS YOU BACK IN THE SEAT. More torque (regardless of the rpm where it occurs or the combo yore running) is more FORCE.
Mph tell us how much Hp you’re making (as far as is practical) which is TORQUE x rpm.
Which part of that statement is misleading or not understood?
Do you agree or disagree that a car making double the torque will accelerate at double the rate, all else being equal, or not?

 

[80FoxCoupe]

I think you missed the point somewhat.
I wasn’t asserting that a centri or a Whipple (insert literally ANY combination here) can’t throw you back in the seat.
I’m saying that TORQUE IS WHAT THROWS YOU BACK IN THE SEAT. More torque (regardless of the rpm where it occurs or the combo yore running) is more FORCE.
Mph tell us how much Hp you’re making (as far as is practical) which is TORQUE x rpm.
Which part of that statement is misleading or not understood?
Do you agree or disagree that a car making double the torque will accelerate at double the rate, all else being equal, or not?

I'm not sure honestly. I'll leave it up to you to make the calculations!

 

[80FoxCoupe]

Car B as you explained above is quicker in the 1320. That implies that the rate of acceleration of car B over that distance, is greater. Doesn't car B have less torque???

 

[engineermike]

Pretty much.
I’ll just wait for a Coyote stroker kit instead though

5.4-5.5 liter strokers have been available for years.

...Do you agree or disagree that a car making double the torque will accelerate at double the rate, all else being equal, or not?

All other things being equal, if it’s making double the torque then it’s also making double the hp.

 

[Burkey]

5.4-5.5 liter strokers have been available for years.



All other things being equal, if it’s making double the torque then it’s also making double the hp.

Correct.
But the bit that seems to be confusing people is the part where 600tq at 3000rpm (342Hp) is producing more thrust than 500tq at 6000rpm (571Hp).
By definition, to make more horsepower for a given rpm, you MUST have more torque, as you said.

Apologies for the confusion re: stroker kits.
I was talking more in terms of sizeable displacement increases. I wouldn’t waste my money on it for a 10% displacement increase.
Typical stroker kits over here in Oz take a 308Ci and make it 355 or 383Ci. More like a 25% increase in the big boy kit.
I realise this would be ludicrously expensive for the Coyote, if even possible at all.

 

[Roh92cp]

When watching the video my ear was trained to the excessive whine, and my eyes turned to the throttle body...None???...what!

I don't know what VMP is doing here, but this is a very misleading advert on their ground braking design supercharger.

Look at minute 2 where he goes into detail explaining how this car is basically stock and makes this great power on 93 and Boostane.

I like VMP, but this makes me wonder about them and ODIN...and why they had to remove the entire intake and run open throttle body with boostane and a volumetric efficiency type air fuel calibration to produce those numbers.

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