thoughts on livernois heads

[andrewtac]

finally got notification my block has shipped, was going to get heads next. Was looking at a few, livernois heads; they are a bit less than some of the other options. Plan on reusing my stock cams. I realize it would be cheaper to get a smaller pulley (or twins). Anyone run them?

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[EFI]

Haven't heard much of them in the Coyote world, but they are pretty popular in the LS world and do good work.

For that kinda money though, I would rather go with Frankenstein.

 

[andrewtac]

Haven't heard much of them in the Coyote world, but they are pretty popular in the LS world and do good work.

For that kinda money though, I would rather go with Frankenstein.

The livernois include new cores for the same price. Seems to good to be true. Plan is to use the current motor as a spare and have Jr built after I finish this one (assuming I don't damage it to bad first).

 

[EFI]

The livernois include new cores for the same price. Seems to good to be true. Plan is to use the current motor as a spare and have Jr built after I finish this one (assuming I don't damage it to bad first).

True, but if you already have some you won't get much for them so it probably makes sense to go with Frankenstein.

If you don't have any and want to build an engine from scratch you can save $1500 and go with Livernois.

 

[andrewtac]

True, but if you already have some you won't get much for them so it probably makes sense to go with Frankenstein.

If you don't have any and want to build an engine from scratch you can save $1500 and go with Livernois.

That was the plan, then have my current ones ported after the swap. For a spare motor. If they are quality then I'd like to save the $1500. I realize ported heads and boost isn't cost efficient; but I figured these would be at least 90-95% as good as some of the more expensive options at about 60% of the cost. Though, I usually get what I pay for when trying to save money.

 

[EFI]

That was the plan, then have my current ones ported after the swap. For a spare motor. If they are quality then I'd like to save the $1500. I realize ported heads and boost isn't cost efficient; but I figured these would be at least 90-95% as good as some of the more expensive options at about 60% of the cost. Though, I usually get what I pay for when trying to save money.

Honestly, for boost that $3500 is mostly a waste. It's like half the cost of a system to gain you 1/10th of the power. You could up the timing or run an extra psi of boost and you'd make up that power for free.

You don't see Coyotes struggling to make power boosted as the heads flow extremely well. That's even more the case for the Gen 3s which are basically GT350 flow in a cast form.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

Honestly, for boost that $3500 is mostly a waste. It's like half the cost of a system to gain you 1/10th of the power. You could up the timing or run an extra psi of boost and you'd make up that power for free.

You don't see Coyotes struggling to make power boosted as the heads flow extremely well. That's even more the case for the Gen 3s which are basically GT350 flow in a cast form.

I agree, skip those heads.

 

[Hi-PO Stang]

Are you all saying the 2.3 LITER Ecoboost head flows so well that there is no need to port it. I would think hogging out the ports would allow even more air to flow into the combustion chamber and give just the extra needed horsepower one would want.

 

[ICU812]

Are you all saying the 2.3 LITER Ecoboost head flows so well that there is no need to port it. I would think hogging out the ports would allow even more air to flow into the combustion chamber and give just the extra needed horsepower one would want.

I am pritty sure they are talking v8, but making ports bigger kills low rpm power as the ports get lazy, sure you can up the boost at low rpm with turbo sizing and waste gates and such.
Most are not driving a prostocker that has a narrow high rpm band, You are only in the higher rpm part of the engines band when you are "playing" . Most need and want it to run and drive good in day to day public road use.
Track only use high rpm charge is awesome, not so much on the street when you give up street manners to get there.

 

[EFI]

Are you all saying the 2.3 LITER Ecoboost head flows so well that there is no need to port it. I would think hogging out the ports would allow even more air to flow into the combustion chamber and give just the extra needed horsepower one would want.

First, we're talking about the 3rd gen Coyote engine specifically. Second, we're not saying ported heads don't make more power...we're saying they are not really cost effective when adding boost to the V8 engine. Third, we're saying that there's other cheaper ways to make the power that ported heads adds.

 

[Black Dog]

Honestly, for boost that $3500 is mostly a waste. It's like half the cost of a system to gain you 1/10th of the power. You could up the timing or run an extra psi of boost and you'd make up that power for free.

You don't see Coyotes struggling to make power boosted as the heads flow extremely well. That's even more the case for the Gen 3s which are basically GT350 flow in a cast form.

I liked your comment as heads are very expensive and the stock heads do flow very well.
But.......My buddy here local to me that heads do make a nice difference. He pulled his stock heads and installed his GT350 heads ported from MMR and very nice increase. Especially with TQ. Night and day difference with quality heads if you can afford it. Oh and if you are not installing and paying someone it gets really fun $$$$.

 

[EFI]

I liked your comment as heads are very expensive and the stock heads do flow very well.
But.......My buddy here local to me that heads do make a nice difference. He pulled his stock heads and installed his GT350 heads ported from MMR and very nice increase. Especially with TQ. Night and day difference with quality heads if you can afford it. Oh and if you are not installing and paying someone it gets really fun $$$$.

Again, for N/A applications trying to max out power it does make a nice difference. And not once did I say it didn't make a nice difference. My point was mainly around $/hp ratio especially in a forced induction setup.

Spending $7000 on a supercharger for 400hp then spending another $3500 for 25-30hp doesn't seem all that logical.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

Are you all saying the 2.3 LITER Ecoboost head flows so well that there is no need to port it. I would think hogging out the ports would allow even more air to flow into the combustion chamber and give just the extra needed horsepower one would want.

Were not talking 4 poppers here. Get your head ported with no other changes and post back with your results.

Your statement is too general as there are many variables that will effect an end result.

 

[andrewtac]

Should have started with more details, since it always depends. V7JTB, street car; probably not going to a bigger blower (but maybe) but not going twins or different brand of blower. Currently stock motor with OPGs and ATI 15%; car runs strong very happy with it; underspinning it for now to hopefully not break it. Building a motor so I can turn the blower up. I plan on buying everything new (block, crank, heads, and so on) to build a motor and keep the other one in the car until I am ready to swap; want as close to zero down time. When the motor comes out, I plan on building the stock motor identical as the spare. I will re-use some things (valve covers, intake,etc.), but was planning on buying the big parts to have two motors. All that said, the porting and upgrades on the livernois heads are about 1600. Real money, but I've spent money to reduce weight (k-member, brakes, battery) and so on that add up to more than $1600. Unfortunately, I have the same bug that many of us do as far as I can't leave anything not modified. I bought the car in March and planned on intake and E85 until the warranty was up; I've since done pretty much everything possible to the chassis/suspension (while keeping it a "street" car), went from paxton to JTB, changed nittos Riis to MT Rs, and so on. Things I promised myself I will not do is skinnies, delete any of the interior, or remove the AC (or other comfort items). Thanks for all the input.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

Should have started with more details, since it always depends. V7JTB, street car; probably not going to a bigger blower (but maybe) but not going twins or different brand of blower. Currently stock motor with OPGs and ATI 15%; car runs strong very happy with it; underspinning it for now to hopefully not break it. Building a motor so I can turn the blower up. I plan on buying everything new (block, crank, heads, and so on) to build a motor and keep the other one in the car until I am ready to swap; want as close to zero down time. When the motor comes out, I plan on building the stock motor identical as the spare. I will re-use some things (valve covers, intake,etc.), but was planning on buying the big parts to have two motors. All that said, the porting and upgrades on the livernois heads are about 1600. Real money, but I've spent money to reduce weight (k-member, brakes, battery) and so on that add up to more than $1600. Unfortunately, I have the same bug that many of us do as far as I can't leave anything not modified. I bought the car in March and planned on intake and E85 until the warranty was up; I've since done pretty much everything possible to the chassis/suspension (while keeping it a "street" car), went from paxton to JTB, changed nittos Riis to MT Rs, and so on. Things I promised myself I will not do is skinnies, delete any of the interior, or remove the AC (or other comfort items). Thanks for all the input.

Lets take extreme swings so the differences can be easily seen. Im simply going to use roundabout numbers. Lets say your blower is maxed out and capable of 1500 hp. Theoretically with the proper provisions to accommodate different engines, that blower maxed out will generally make 1500hp on a 2.0l engine or a 7.0l engine. Now obvious differences will be pressure in the manifold for each engine. Lets say 50psi and 25psi respectively. More power will be needed to turn the blower to compress 50psi and along with that comes more heat.

A slight increase in volumetric efficiency in your case with porting the heads may result in less parasitic loss to drive the blower and a touch less heat. But is that quantifiable? Will it add up to anything at the track? Likely not. Blower setups are basically limited to the capability of the compressor. Spend your money on things that will improve reliability like good rods and a trick set of valves.

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