This Why I Really Don't Like Dealers

[Garfy]

We used Chiltons for our retail times. It was fine, we usually had an hourly kid doing most of them, or we'd do them for our regulars.

Yes, same here regarding our good regular customers. I really hated doing some trucks/SUVs where you had to unbolt the skid plates to access the filter; never could beat the .3 hour. It's like the .8 front brake job which included machining the rotors which was ridiculous considering that just pad replacement alone was 1.0 in flat rate.

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[Lorne34]

I understand your concerns. I am fortunate enough to have a dealership that does not play those games. I also bought a full maintenance plan on my 350 so everything is covered from oil changes, fluid, etc.. Dealerships are like russian roulette or Forrest's box of chocolates.. you never know what your gonna get..

 

[rhexis]

i had to take my S4 in last week because the fuel door broke. i was running on fumes so stopped for gas and i could not get the door to unlock. the design is so bad that audi actually has a rip cord backup device in the trunk just to open the fuel door but to my horror the cord failed as well.
anyway i made it to the dealer and thankfully i am still under the 3/36 warranty or it would have cost $809 for the repair. while the car is in for the repair i got another $2600 quote for brake fluid flush, new tires and cabin air filter replacement. that itself was 220 bucks. i declined all and replaced the cabin air filter for $35 and 10 minutes of my time. this is why i only take my cars to the dealer when its warranty work. anything else i will either fix it myself or take it to a trustworthy shop.

 

[cchvyd28]

You may have caught them on the cabin filter, but the induction service is more of a preventative maintenance. Especially if you see a lot of idle time, or short trips. If you wait until you see an issue to do the service it may be too late and likely has been causing small, unnoticed issues for a while already.

I am a firm believer in brake flushes as well, the difference it can make in brake pedal feel is amazing, especially if the service is postponed long enough. Also not to mention the preventative side of things, prolonging brake system components life cycle by removing moisture and impurities.

 

[cchvyd28]

Also don't be too hard on the mechanic. It is literally their job to find things to fix to make the dealership money, especially when it is warranty work that does not pay well. Yes the cabin filter was a fumble. But look at it from his perspective, why bother opening up the glove box and checking when 99.9% of people who bring their car to a dealer will not change their own filters. It was a gamble on his part to save time that didn't pay off this .1% of the time.

 

[Prodigal]

Mine swiped the $495 included full car cover before delivering my M1. I called them on it and they supposedly ordered me a replacement. I’m not holding my breath I’ll ever see it.

 

[Chomperr]

They are over selling instead of upselling.

I think I agree with this.

It’s not our fault Ford doesn’t pay their techs enough and NO it isn’t “part of their job” to lie and sell you services you don’t NEED. Not sure why people are giving OP flak about this. Although we should all know they are called “stealerships” for a reason and this behavior should have been expected.

 

[lugbolt]

Service dept ethics is something that a few places do not possess.

Most shops are running in either a net zero profit or more commonly in the red. That's not where they want to be. It takes a LOT of money to run a shop.

I managed a little tiny shop for a while. The shop budget was $118,000 a month. That's what it took to break even for the most part, meaning pay insurance, taxes, wages, special tooling, rent, utilities, comebacks (they happen), and all of the hundreds of other things that cost. Those costs don't get any cheaper either, they've gone up along with everyone else's costs in the last year or two. Substantially. I'm at a different place now, smaller yet-but I'm just wrenching and no longer managing. In 2020, what cost $5200 is now over 15 THOUSAND. Labor rates HAD to go up, there was no other way around it unfortunately. Upselling is more important now than it ever has been, but therein lies the ethics comment.

There must be a balance between upselling and running customers off. Part of that is the responsibility of the service manager or writer. Writers--are often low wage employees, working by the house. They don't always get bonuses. Straight commission is disappearing in favor of a hourly+bonus setup. In that system, the tech gets an hourly rate, say $15.00/hr. That's not very much by anyone's book and is actually borderline poverty level wage. The bonus makes up for that. That is labor-hour based. If tech bills a certain percentage or more, there is a bonus offered that is paid by the labor hour. For instance, if the threshold is 65% (65% of 40 hours worked is 26 hours), once the tech hits 26 billed hours he or she (usually he) gets a bonus, which might be for instance another $8 per billable hour (26 x 8 = 208) on top of his 40 hour base rate. Different shops use a different scale, for instance mine is $10/billable hour from 15-20 hours, then it goes to $15/billable hour from 21-30 hour, and top level is $23 per billed hour. So as you can see the techs have nothing to sell but time. Actually that is all the service department sells, is time. Back to ethics. If I'm doing an oil change, while the oil's dumping out of the drain, I'm looking at rotors, bolts, nuts, etc. If possible I'll look at it's service history, if none, I'll ask the service manager to look into it. What he does at that point, usually is to review any history we (dealer) has on that particular unit. If none, they're going to recommend things. At that point the writer or manager-whoever's making the call to the customer-is responsible for "reading" that customer. If that customer is a "car guy", they'll know quick, usually those types are going to turn down any "upselling". But they have to be real careful in HOW they recommend things, and they better have backup, if the owner's manual states to flush the brake fluid at 2 years and there is no record of it, and the moisture/acid content of the fluid in the vehicle tells us that it's "due", then they're in the clear. But if there is record of it and they recommend it anyway? Grounds for a ding in the dealer's credibility. How many dings does it take to make a big dent? Depends on the customer but usually ONE is all it takes. Some of the stories I hear from people about other shops is sometimes unbelieveable. I've sometimes called those places to get their side of the story and sometimes it does not even come close to matching the customer's side, thus you don't know who to believe. At that point, I'm on my own and have had to make loose recommendations all the while reading the customer's tone. It is as much knowing how to "read" people as it is fixing their stuff.

There are also times when an owners manual service intervals are not exactly correct, and there's times when the owners manuals leave out a lot of service items that are included in the shop manuals. I've run into this often with different equipment (not cars) and it leads to frustration on both the service side as well as the customer's side.

Another thing. Communication. A dealer MUST clearly communicate with the customer, period end of story. If you tell a customer that the car's gonna be there for 2 hours, offer 'em a ride to work or whatever. If it's gonna take longer than that, tell them. It's not "that" hard to do. If you see something that should be addressed, ask the customer if they'd like us to take a closer look and give an estimate. Really, it's all just common sense--which isn't as common as it used to be, unfortunately.

Note that I'm not defending any dealer, I know there's a few bad ones out there and those guys will not stay in business forever and often those type techs (or writers) aren't allowed to stay at good dealers for very long. So with that, often you can go in, get poor service and a month later get a completely different crew because the poor serving ones are gone.

Dealers that are any good, or if they aren't and want to be good, they've got to be really careful what they hire--ain't gonna be any good if they hire workers who make things go wrong for income. Word gets out quick and it travels far. Then next thing you know the dealer is belly up or sold and restructured. I've seen this countless times and have been through it but for a different reason (owner retired). And as a manager I've caught techs doing things that they shouldn't be and I give them one shot to straighten up. I'm a no BS kind of manager. One second chance, you screw up again you're looking for work. Those kinds of people sometimes don't care and they'll quit on the spot when you call them out because they know that grease monkeys are in demand. But TECHS (which are different than mechanics) are in higher demand, and almost always paid a LOT better. When I say paid better, the base rates are better and the bonuses are better for techs than they are for grease monkeys.

Oil change? It should not be less than 0.5hr. If you find a flat rate that is out of line, bring it to the attention of your superiors. I'm fortunate that I have access to the dealer system and can make the recommendation directly to them rather than the dealer writer or service manager. I usually bypass them on that kind of stuff. Sometimes you don't have that access because of your credentials, if you're a master tech you have it. If you're not certified, there's a good reason to get certified. We have a tiered PM (preventive maintenance). 1, is oil change and check over. 2 is oil, air filter, and check (for the most part, there's a little more to it) and 3 includes 1 and 2, plug flush brakes, check valves on those that need it (non-hydraulic), etc. Most go for level 2 and a few for level 3 depending on how long it's been since they've had maintenance done. A level one is nothing but an oil change and a very quick look-around for obvious stuff. Steering rack boots, cv boots, just stuff you can see easily while the vehicle is in the air. I'll dig a little deeper for 2 and 3, and it's not that I'm LOOKING for things wrong for income, I'm looking for things wrong to keep those wrongs from snowballing-and they will if you ignore them. A simple cv boot turns into an axle if you just let it go. And if you don't point it out on a L1 service, the failed axle will strand the driver, and when it does they'll call you and gripe because you didn't check it when it was in for oil change. But if you checked it as torn and they deny repair saying it wasn't like that before? It's on them 100% and "most" of the time you'll end up fixing it. Some guys won't set foot in your shop again because they think you cut it with your pocket knife while you were doing the "check over". Majority of the time it was torn for a long time but they didn't see it because they don't get under the car the same way that a tech does, if at all. WE see things all the time and sometimes the owner knows about it, sometimes they don't--it's our job to point them out and ask them what their plan of action is. In a case like that, I ask myself, are they a gambler? How long do ya think it'll last? My response to that is...maybe a week, maybe a decade, if I could predict the future, I'd certainly have chosen a different profession!

Owners don't understand the complexities of working at a dealer, ya think it's simple when in fact it's far from it. It's also far from cheap. We had to invest almost $11k into an air conditioning machine to service R1234YF systems. If we charge $40 for every repair, it would take 275 of them JUST to pay for that machine. Sounds easy right? Nope. If you do 3 a week it'd take almost 8 years to pay for it assuming the government doesn't change the laws again which renders that $11,000 machine useless. Just an example, hopefully you get the idea.

 

[Mspider]

The problem with dealerships is that they are operate as independent shops.

 

[lugbolt]

The problem with dealerships is that they are operate as independent shops.

having worked for a mom-and-pop dealer, then a large corporate dealer, I can tell you firsthand that the mom-and-pop dealers take care of their customers much better than corporate. And corporate also cares little about employee retention. Which is why I am not there no more.

 

[Cobra Jet]

There are good and bad Delaerships - not EVERY Dealership is "bad". My current Dealership is excellent from Sales to Service - they run a tight ship so to speak.

So do you all know how to take care of a "bad" Dealership?

If having a less than stellar experience at ANY Dealership, ask for the Store Manager OR the Owner of the Dealership.

Ford Dealers are franchised just like a McDonalds. There's a local on-site Store Manager just as there is the actual Owner of the Franchise.

You can request to speak to the Store Mgr. (Local on-site) while you are there in the building. If you can't get satisfactory resolution on-site, then your next step is to request the contact info to the Owner of the Franchise AND state you want an appointment to speak to him/her. You can do it and don't let the in-store Mgr. tell you that's not possible.

Schedule the meeting for the Owner. When you get that meeting - maintain composure, speak and act intelligently on a professional person-to-person level. Don't let your anger get the best of you or start cussing up a storm - that won't get you anywhere. Explain your frustrations and why you're displeased. You may find that the Owner will be more than obliged to not only help but to ensure your future experiences are positive.

If you can't get to the Owner - as the last resort call the Ford 800# and put in a compliant and that you wish for it to be elevated.

Vehicle Owners can also complete or fill out any mailed or emailed Dealership surveys with all low #'s or negatives. That survey gets back to Ford Corp., and Ford Corp. has interaction with the Dealers; you will receive a call from the Dealership inquiring about your survey with them and wanting to smooth things over...

In the past, I've dealt directly with (2) different Ford Franchise Owners. In both instances they were understanding of my concerns and complaints. The 1st instance occurred back in the 90's when I had my 96 Cobra and after our meeting the Owner actually let go the Service Writer and 2 Techs (found that out through subsequent follow ups to my next service visits) The 2nd instance was as recent as 2016 when I was having warranty and service issues with my prior 2016 S550. That Franchise Owner offered me free oil changes and detailing - to which I kindly replied "No" and told her that I would never be coming back, and if asked, I would not recommend her Dealership. I explained I was there to relay my concerns in person and had she not sat down with me in person, I would have laid out those same concerns on their social media sites and elevate it to Ford Corp. To which she replied she was greatful I met in person, she appreciated the constructive criticism, my concerns, and she would resolve the issues discussed.

Each one of you as a Ford Customer can act on any dissatisfaction by using the info above. Ignoring it, taking it on the chin and not wanting to deal with a particular Dealership WITHOUT elevating a concern on-site won't resolve issues. A Dealership OR Service Center can't better themselves if they are not aware of such instances of dissatisfaction of repair and/or something else that upset an existing or potential customer.

 

[Finally21]

They did their job by trying to upsell you.
You did your job saying no.
This is a big-to-do about nothing other than did you just want to bitch about something?

Someone voices their opinion/feelings and some feel the need to crap on them for it. I don't understand why.

 

[Germansheperd]

Someone voices their opinion/feelings and some feel the need to crap on them for it. I don't understand why.

They wanted to whine about nothing. Go to a dealer they try to sell. Its their job. Don’t like it stay away.

 

[Finally21]

They wanted to whine about nothing. Go to a dealer they try to sell. Its their job. Don’t like it stay away.

If you don't like what people have to say, stay away.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

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