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shogun32

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I do not like that it 'thunks' when going into first from a dead stop
That's because the clutch is dragging just enough to preload the gearset, drive shaft and diff.
Auto guys should simply think about the extra sales their car is getting because manual guys are helping keep it around.
unfortunately we manual guys barely amount to a pimple on an elephant's ass
I speak for myself when I say that I would even buy a manual in an electric just to still be required to shift and have more fun driving.
I would love to see that 'Lightning' show car driving a 6 speed manual transmission. Ok, for an electric only 3 speeds (maybe 4) would be plenty but to hell with automatics. I refuse to buy a Charger because I can't get a manual. I won't buy a Challenger even a Hellcat unless it comes with a stick. I won't buy a DSG Audi (my brother has a V8 RS5) or Porsche, nor BMW nor VW without a stick. No 3rd pedal on a car, no sale. Period.
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Norm Peterson

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My MT-82D4 is beautiful. I do not love the gearing but the shifting is great. smooth and just falls into gear. Must have got a good one I guess. I do not like that it 'thunks' when going into first from a dead stop but that and the gearing are my only complaints. Coming from a 5 speed, this was an easy transition since it is just a double overdrive '5 - speed' to me.

Having a '19 GT PP2, I am interested to take a Mach 1 - manual out for a spin just to see what all the Tremec comments are about and to see if I prefer the gearing. My curiosity is if I will feel the gearing too close since I have only driven 5 speed with a single overdrive all my life. But that is for me and I am sure most will find it great. I too might.
What you're describing sounds like the result of 'conditioning'.

A single widely spaced overdrive gear encourages an attitude where "overdrive" is only a gear that you use for sustained cruising at speed. As such, it doesn't have to be particularly responsive or useful otherwise. And this was probably the OEM thinking once they started providing overdrive transmission gears. Four had always been enough in the past (with only a few import exceptions), so this new 5th gear only had to do something that the first four were not well suited for.

But with 6 or more forward speeds, it makes sense to close up the 4-5-6 spacing. A mild overdrive 5th makes a good cruising gear for driving that's typically 50 mph or so, where a distant 6th would be too tall and a normal 4th would be running at more revs than necessary for no real benefit. It's also a good gear for highway driving that has slowed somewhat from its normal speed.

It doesn't much matter if 4th is the direct-drive gear and you have a "double-overdrive" transmission, or if 5th is direct-drive with a single overdrive. Or if the transmission doesn't even have a direct 1.00:1 gear at all and it has anywhere from 1 to possibly 3 overdriven gears. You just gear the whole business appropriately with the axle ratio and tire size.


Norm
 
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shogun32

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A mild overdrive 5th makes a good cruising gear for driving that's typically 50 mph or so,
with the D4 and 3.73 I'll be driving >70mph in 5th for several minutes before it even occurs to me to select 6th. Same on the double-overdrive Tremec. 6th is useless except as a MPG improver. If they ever tear my trans apart 6th gear will look practically new.
 

Norm Peterson

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with the D4 and 3.73 I'll be driving >70mph in 5th for several minutes before it even occurs to me to select 6th. Same on the double-overdrive Tremec. 6th is useless except as a MPG improver. If they ever tear my trans apart 6th gear will look practically new.
Like I said, "conditioning". I've had more cars where the top three gears were closely spaced than where there was a big gap between the top two. I expect to use all 5 or all 6 on a regular basis.

Your Mustang's 4th and my Mustang's 4th are both direct, and my 5th is much closer to your 6th (0.68 vs 0.62) than to your 5th. Many times I've wanted something in between 4th and 5th, and not just while out on a road course near the top of 4th with only a gutless 5th above that.

The thing about the D4 that I'm not crazy about are the big steps between 2nd and 3rd and between 3rd and 4th. Dunno, maybe it suits the drag racers better overall that way.


Norm
 

Fly2High

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Like I said, "conditioning". I've had more cars where the top three gears were closely spaced than where there was a big gap between the top two. I expect to use all 5 or all 6 on a regular basis.

Your Mustang's 4th and my Mustang's 4th are both direct, and my 5th is much closer to your 6th (0.68 vs 0.62) than to your 5th. Many times I've wanted something in between 4th and 5th, and not just while out on a road course near the top of 4th with only a gutless 5th above that.

The thing about the D4 that I'm not crazy about are the big steps between 2nd and 3rd and between 3rd and 4th. Dunno, maybe it suits the drag racers better overall that way.


Norm
or maybe they did it to have the A10 look better...
Whaa Ha ha ha. (devious laughter)
 

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I will say the Manual is more fun than an auto but the last one I owned was a top loader behind a 427 in my Fairlane. 2 of them didn’t last long. After a built C6 I never went back. I’m done shifting. That doesn’t mean I want to see them get rid of them. I think they are both needed even though I’ll never drive another.
 

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Norm Peterson

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Interesting.

Except for the round tach and speedometer displays, I have a spreadsheet that I think does everything that app does, and that can further work with published tire revs/mile or effective rolling circumferences based on either nominal tire sizes or published tire OD and section width information. I'm betting that the online app does not consider circumferential tread distortion effects, rolling through the actual contact patch (haven't seen one yet that does).


Norm
 

shogun32

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yes it's a simplistic calculator, just very easy to play what-if and also provide visual reference. And I didn't have to write any code.
 

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So a base Mach 1 starts at $51k... for a vehicle that’s fabricated from leftover parts bins, a sticker package, a specific rim set and with no genuine “re-design”?

Plus, you know Dealers will be pulling the ADM BS on these too - so it’s not just $51k or $56k - expect to see these things listed initially for $65k+ “just because”...
 

jake_zx2

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So a base Mach 1 starts at $51k... for a vehicle that’s fabricated from leftover parts bins, a sticker package, a specific rim set and with no genuine “re-design”?

Plus, you know Dealers will be pulling the ADM BS on these too - so it’s not just $51k or $56k - expect to see these things listed initially for $65k+ “just because”...
I mean, what more do you want? A GT PP2 with the same options but minus the tremec, coolers, unique tuning, upgraded engine, and upgraded front fascia is about $51k. The Mach 1 pricing is fine, I just wish it offered some more standard options
 

shogun32

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A GT PP2 with the same options but minus the tremec, coolers, unique tuning, upgraded engine, and upgraded front fascia is about $51k.
No it's not. The 51k config you're referencing is a 401A-trim PP2 which sells at 46k every day of the week vs it's 51k sticker. But lets be dishonest and call a 401A PP2 equivalent to a 600A trim Mach1 for the sake of argument since Ford leather is garbage. The Tremec and coolers could be bought at retail for the 5 grand difference. Sell the zero-mile MT82-D4 and you get a couple grand back easy which nets out the GT350 intake and TB. The Mach1 is a lousy deal as crafted. If it is sold at 8-10% discount just like all the rest of the lineup, THEN and only then does the value position approach "good".

If you calculate from the bottom, a 301A PP1+MR+AE stickers for 47k and sells for 42k the live long day. You would have nearly 9 grand to spend to retrofit the car to 'Mach1' feature set. I dare say it could be done for vastly less than that budget.
 
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jake_zx2

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No it's not. The 51k config you're referencing is a 401A-trim PP2 which sells at 46k every day of the week vs it's 51k sticker. But lets be dishonest and call a 401A PP2 equivalent to a 600A trim Mach1 for the sake of argument since Ford leather is garbage. The Tremec and coolers could be bought at retail for the 5 grand difference. Sell the zero-mile MT82-D4 and you get a couple grand back easy which nets out the GT350 intake and TB. The Mach1 is a lousy deal as crafted. If it is sold at 8-10% discount just like all the rest of the lineup, THEN and only then does the value position approach "good".

If you calculate from the bottom, a 301A PP1+MR+AE stickers for 47k and sells for 42k the live long day. You would have nearly 9 grand to spend to retrofit the car to 'Mach1' feature set. I dare say it could be done for vastly less than that budget.
What it sells for means nothing in this conversation, because it’s variable at best for the PP2 and completely unknown for the Mach 1, so what matters here is MSRP.

Yes, it is a 401a, because while the 600a Mach doesn’t have leather, it has EVERY OTHER OPTION of the 401a, including the digital dash. But if you REALLY want to be a stickler for options, let’s add the 700A package to the Mach 1 ($1600) and subsequently add the B&O sound system to the PP2 ($1000) and wow, a $600 difference :facepalm:

The Tremec and coolers absolutely not be bought at retail for $5k, as retail on the rear diff cooler alone is $2k. MT82s of ANY kind sell for next to nothing, so you really aren’t making much back with that. And even after you do all that work and spend more on the PP2 to make it as good, you still no longer have the warranty that the Mach 1 has, which itself can be worth tens of thousands depending on what goes wrong with your car (I know someone who has been through 3 transmissions and 1 engine, all covered under warranty).

We all know that you can build a base model GT to be faster for cheaper, that’s a given. That’s a great option... for people who don’t care about a warranty and just want the fastest possible track car. But for people who want a great weekend track warrior with a warranty, the Mach 1 is an excellent option at a decent price
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