There are no words…

[MAGS1]

I enjoy watching David’s videos and I remember seeing this one. Good video IMO, our driving schools and tests suck compared to other parts of the world. Driving is a privilege, not a right. And I firmly believe that (Others may disagree and that’s fine, not looking for an argument)

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[RagmopInKona]

Oh, you want to play the semantics game.

How about we just stick to the physics game, and acknowledge it doesn't fucking matter whether you're driving the right or wrong way down a street, when you strike another vehicle at 150MPH?

It does matter when one claims it was from street racing.
Lets ban all vehicles from going over 75 mpg because some are morons.
I pray for those that got hurt/killed and their families. sad deal. but if it was teens in a camry. it never been a thread here. Morons are morons no matter what vehicle they strap into.
I don't know about you. but I know when I was 16-18 I did not always make the smartest choices behind the wheel. I just got dam lucky, my boneheaded moves never caused anyone harm. I thank god every day for that. as I was a hellon behind the wheel with more knowledge of how to make my rides fast and almost non on how to control it. I got damn lucky. And I know it. Some act like they never did anything, or it was "different" when they did it.

 

[PhillyMike]

I think this thread encapsulates so much of what is going wrong with our society right now.

Also think everyone would agree with the above statement, but disagree passionately on why.

 

[ay1820]

I definitely do not think we should start putting speed limiters on our cars. I do agree that we need to do a better job teaching our kids, and each and every one of us can do a better job setting the right example. There is a difference between a bit of spirited driving on an empty road and reckless driving in traffic. I also think parents need to take more responsibility for their kids, but I also know that no matter how hard we try, our kids will still make stupid choices from time to time (all of us did), so I am not in favor throwing the book at parents when their kids do something dumb.

This is not problem we can absolutely "fix", and we shouldn't try. All we can do teach our children the best we can and show compassion if/when things go wrong.

 

[AvalancheSVT]

I enjoy watching David’s videos and I remember seeing this one. Good video IMO, our driving schools and tests suck compared to other parts of the world. Driving is a privilege, not a right. And I firmly believe that (Others may disagree and that’s fine, not looking for an argument)

if people properly understood rights you wouldn't have to make the false dichotomy of rights vs privileges here.

it isn't a privilege because there is no other way to travel, roads are the things we have to use and since we have the right to travel that means we have the right to use those roads (that we pay for).

HOWEVER all rights come with inherent responsibilities. that's the huge part missing in our culture, everyone wants rights but nobody wants responsibilities.

if you knew that killing someone with your car would likely end with you being charged with murder an executed if it was proven in a court of law that it was your fault do you think people would drive more carefully?

drunks kill people and get out in a few years.
this kid might go down for manslaugher and be out before he's 30.

that's bullshit. he should die if its proven that he knowingly endangered and killed 3 people.

the state's job is to punish evil and they do not do that well enough which is why we have the problems we have.

again, this is a problem of a weak effeminate culture operating without appropriate consequence to evil. participation trophy boy with the nice parents didn't teach him to value life and respect the machine so he murders 3 people with his jackassary.

that boy did this evil thing because he lacked the fortitude and wisdom to do differently.

 

[KingKona]

It does matter when one claims it was from street racing.
Lets ban all vehicles from going over 75 mpg because some are morons.
I pray for those that got hurt/killed and their families. sad deal. but if it was teens in a camry. it never been a thread here. Morons are morons no matter what vehicle they strap into.
I don't know about you. but I know when I was 16-18 I did not always make the smartest choices behind the wheel. I just got dam lucky, my boneheaded moves never caused anyone harm. I thank god every day for that. as I was a hellon behind the wheel with more knowledge of how to make my rides fast and almost non on how to control it. I got damn lucky. And I know it. Some act like they never did anything, or it was "different" when they did it.

I never claimed it was from street racing. It might have been, but the point it, it doesn't matter WHY he was driving 150MPH on the street, just that he was.

And drunk.

And on the wrong side of the road.

Yes, we were all young & dumb at one time. But there's grown-ass adults here bragging and posting videos of themselves doing BIG speed on public roads. And not empty public roads.

I look at it simply; if you're the only person that can be killed/injured, then do what you want. But if there's another vehicle within sight, be reasonable about your driving.

 

[wynand32]

It does matter when one claims it was from street racing.
Lets ban all vehicles from going over 75 mpg because some are morons.
I pray for those that got hurt/killed and their families. sad deal. but if it was teens in a camry. it never been a thread here. Morons are morons no matter what vehicle they strap into.
I don't know about you. but I know when I was 16-18 I did not always make the smartest choices behind the wheel. I just got dam lucky, my boneheaded moves never caused anyone harm. I thank god every day for that. as I was a hellon behind the wheel with more knowledge of how to make my rides fast and almost non on how to control it. I got damn lucky. And I know it. Some act like they never did anything, or it was "different" when they did it.

Some thoughts, and I'm not trying to be confrontational at all.

Agreed, it doesn't matter if it was from street racing.

Do you disagree with speed limits overall, or just a 75 MPH max? For example, 20 MPH in a school zone or 25MPH in a residential zone? If it's just the maximum speed that you don't like, where would you propose that faster speeds be allowed, and how fast? I'm not sure about this one myself. Germany has the autobahn, but it's also engineered for high speeds. Do our roads qualify? I don't want to drive 150MPH only to come across a section of the freeway that's been poorly built and maintained, and I lose control. The argument would be, make roads private and they'll be engineered appropriately, which I agree with. But that would entail a wholesale change in our society that we're unlikely to see. As things are, I like speed limits because most people really are horrible drivers even at slower speeds.

I agree that kids do stupid things. I did stupid things for sure. But I also know that I did stupider things in my '70 Cutlass with a V8 and (250 HP?) than I did in my '67 Dodge Dart with a slant-6 and 115 HP. For me, at least, driving a car with more power produces a rush that's hard to deny sometimes, even at age 56. Give me a Mustang GT when I was a teenager, and I would have killed myself in it for sure.

I suppose all I'm saying is, giving a kid a car with 460HP might not be the smartest thing to do. At least, not without a bunch of training and without a good assessment of the kid's maturity level. I wouldn't have given my kids firearms, either, without making sure they were mature enough to handle them and provided with sufficient training.

 

[MAGS1]

if people properly understood rights you wouldn't have to make the false dichotomy of rights vs privileges here.

it isn't a privilege because there is no other way to travel, roads are the things we have to use and since we have the right to travel that means we have the right to use those roads (that we pay for).

HOWEVER all rights come with inherent responsibilities. that's the huge part missing in our culture, everyone wants rights but nobody wants responsibilities.

if you knew that killing someone with your car would likely end with you being charged with murder an executed if it was proven in a court of law that it was your fault do you think people would drive more carefully?

drunks kill people and get out in a few years.
this kid might go down for manslaugher and be out before he's 30.

that's bullshit. he should die if its proven that he knowingly endangered and killed 3 people.

the state's job is to punish evil and they do not do that well enough which is why we have the problems we have.

again, this is a problem of a weak effeminate culture operating without appropriate consequence to evil. participation trophy boy with the nice parents didn't teach him to value life and respect the machine so he murders 3 people with his jackassary.

that boy did this evil thing because he lacked the fortitude and wisdom to do differently.

Like I said, others may feel differently and that’s 100% fine. I would just add there are other means of transportation (public transit, bike, walk, etc.). They may not always be convenient but there are other options which makes me feel that driving is a privilege and not a right. Again, just my opinion. I do think “rights vs privileges” is somewhat subjective unless specifically outlined in a state or US constitution (or other country specific documents). But that’s a deeper conversation than I care to have in a fun car forum on a Friday (and probably not allowed here anyway).

 

[AvalancheSVT]

I never claimed it was from street racing. It might have been, but the point it, it doesn't matter WHY he was driving 150MPH on the street, just that he was.

And drunk.

And on the wrong side of the road.

Yes, we were all young & dumb at one time. But there's grown-ass adults here bragging and posting videos of themselves doing BIG speed on public roads. And not empty public roads.

I look at it simply; if you're the only person that can be killed/injured, then do what you want. But if there's another vehicle within site, be reasonable about your driving.

almost all traffic fatalities involve one of 2 things:

1. intoxication
2. no seatbelt

if both cars were doing 75 in a 75 the kid wasn't even speeding, he was just going the wrong way.
150mph impact is easily achievable on a highway.

this kid's parents taught him to be a boy instead of a man, handed him the keys to a missle, and let him go get hammered with his buddies.

weakness kills.

 

[wynand32]

I enjoy watching David’s videos and I remember seeing this one. Good video IMO, our driving schools and tests suck compared to other parts of the world. Driving is a privilege, not a right. And I firmly believe that (Others may disagree and that’s fine, not looking for an argument)

Not to argue with you, but I don't agree with the adage "driving is a privilege, not a right." I believe in individual rights as a fundamental principle. The problem is, we don't live in a free society where individual rights are fundamental. If we did, then things would be completely different. People would be completely different, in large part because the educational system would be different.

 

[MAGS1]

Not to argue with you, but I don't agree with the adage "driving is a privilege, not a right." I believe in individual rights as a fundamental principle. The problem is, we don't live in a free society where individual rights are fundamental. If we did, then things would be completely different. People would be completely different, in large part because the educational system would be different.

Fair point. That’s why I said others may feel differently, we all have differing viewpoints on various things and totally respect yours and others opinions on the subject. Just what I believe, nothing more nothing less.

 

[wynand32]

if people properly understood rights you wouldn't have to make the false dichotomy of rights vs privileges here.

I agree with this, full stop. No need to further define or clarify it by talking about "responsibilities." You're right, but responsibility is the result of possessing individual rights. If we were a truly free society, then people would be aware of their responsibilities because they'd have no other choice, which you allude to.

drunks kill people and get out in a few years.
this kid might go down for manslaugher and be out before he's 30.

that's bullshit. he should die if its proven that he knowingly endangered and killed 3 people.

the state's job is to punish evil and they do not do that well enough which is why we have the problems we have.

Slight disagreement here. The state's job is to secure our individual rights, not to "punish evil." We don't want the state to position itself as the arbiter of morality. The best way to accomplish its proper role is up for debate, but I'm against the death penalty because I don't trust the state as is. It's too easily corruptible to give it the power over the life and death of US citizens. However, a life sentence, in this case, would be fine with me.

Also, can we agree that this kid likely had no intention of killing these people? That this was likely an act of stupidity and not malice?
[/QUOTE]

again, this is a problem of a weak effeminate culture operating without appropriate consequence to evil. participation trophy boy with the nice parents didn't teach him to value life and respect the machine so he murders 3 people with his jackassary.

that boy did this evil thing because he lacked the fortitude and wisdom to do differently.

This, I don't agree with, which is probably where our other disagreement stems from. I think this is an oversimplification and that words like "weak" and "effeminate" don't describe the fundamental problems. But maybe that's beyond the scope of a forum like this. If we were to talk over a couple of beers, we'd probably have an easier time finding a point of agreement.

 

[RonsterGT]

I think a HUMONGOUS problem is video games (shooting, driving) that shape or alter kids' perception of reality.
Nobody really dies, just hit "reset" and start again.

The fucktard driving the Mustang had no clue about consequences. He's likely "on the spectrum", retarded, or was high on God-knows-what. He took human lives.
Best thing for society would be to euthanize him.

 

[RonsterGT]

if people properly understood rights you wouldn't have to make the false dichotomy of rights vs privileges here.

it isn't a privilege because there is no other way to travel, roads are the things we have to use and since we have the right to travel that means we have the right to use those roads (that we pay for).

HOWEVER all rights come with inherent responsibilities. that's the huge part missing in our culture, everyone wants rights but nobody wants responsibilities.

if you knew that killing someone with your car would likely end with you being charged with murder an executed if it was proven in a court of law that it was your fault do you think people would drive more carefully?

drunks kill people and get out in a few years.
this kid might go down for manslaugher and be out before he's 30.

that's bullshit. he should die if its proven that he knowingly endangered and killed 3 people.

the state's job is to punish evil and they do not do that well enough which is why we have the problems we have.

again, this is a problem of a weak effeminate culture operating without appropriate consequence to evil. participation trophy boy with the nice parents didn't teach him to value life and respect the machine so he murders 3 people with his jackassary.

that boy did this evil thing because he lacked the fortitude and wisdom to do differently.

Everything you said, 100% !

 

[AvalancheSVT]

This, I don't agree with, which is probably where our other disagreement stems from. I think this is an oversimplification and that words like "weak" and "effeminate" don't describe the fundamental problems. But maybe that's beyond the scope of a forum like this. If we were to talk over a couple of beers, we'd probably have an easier time finding a point of agreement.

what i mean by weak is "lack of fortitude" and I say effeminate to point out the shaming of masculinity in our culture which acts as a catalyst for the former situation.

a boy who lacks fortitude (which is a virtue) and is then has behavior modeled by the women he is primarily raised by is out of balance. dad could be absent entirely or just neglectful, both result in pretty similar outcomes. dad provides the training in regulating emotions and mom provides the boy with insight into the benefit of using emotions.

together this builds strong healthy mature men.
when dad doesn't do his job that boy becomes a wrecking ball for the people around him.

all of this is well documented in tons of studies spanning decades and decades.

strong/healthy people require virtue, a balance of duties and responsibilities, and weak/unhealthy people lean too hard into vice like the drunk boy who murdered 3 people with his carelessness in this thread.

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