The voodoo heads flow 2-3% more air because of new CNC porting.

[Darkane]

http://www.mustangandfords.com/feat...n-deliver-supercar-level-0-100-0-performance/

Why didn’t ford release updated power numbers for the GT350?

Something is fishy, and a side by side dyno of a 2020 and a 2018 needs to happen.

As I understand it, the 2019 voodoo has the new block, but might not have the new heads.

But I know why ford didn’t release new power figures, they’d have to put it through EPA testing and re-certify as opposed to keeping quiet and not changing.

The 2020 voodoo is a different engine. I’ve also read the GT500 heads pack bigger springs and valves than the voodoo. So now ford is creating two castings?? Doubt it.

Voodoo might have these bigger valves, too.

Is ford waiting to release all this info for the 2020 350R?? With 540hp?

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[Bulldogs22]

http://www.mustangandfords.com/feat...n-deliver-supercar-level-0-100-0-performance/

Why didn’t ford release updated power numbers for the GT350?

Something is fishy, and a side by side dyno of a 2020 and a 2018 needs to happen.

As I understand it, the 2019 voodoo has the new block, but might not have the new heads.

But I know why ford didn’t release new power figures, they’d have to put it through EPA testing and re-certify as opposed to keeping quiet and not changing.

The 2020 voodoo is a different engine. I’ve also read the GT500 heads pack bigger springs and valves than the voodoo. So now ford is creating two castings?? Doubt it.

Voodoo might have these bigger valves, too.

Is ford waiting to release all this info for the 2020 350R?? With 540hp?

The 350 has always had CNC ported heads and they differ from the 500 because they are unequal length bc Ford claims they were having emission issues with equal length. I have a 2019 which is going to be the same engine going into the 2020s and the only real difference I feel is some calibration with a bit more linear throttle but it could just be in my head. As for the 2020 R expect cosmetic aero updates and possibly a new magniride suspension or DSSV suspension with tech borrowed from the Ford Gt not any power updates.

 

[Darkane]

The 350 has always had CNC ported heads and they differ from the 500 because they are unequal length bc Ford claims they were having emission issues with equal length. I have a 2019 which is going to be the same engine going into the 2020s and the only real difference I feel is some calibration with a bit more linear throttle but it could just be in my head. As for the 2020 R expect cosmetic aero updates and possibly a new magniride suspension or DSSV suspension with tech borrowed from the Ford Gt not any power updates.

I think you’re getting confused with the exhaust manifolds being equal length, not the head castings.

 

[Bulldogs22]

I think you’re getting confused with the exhaust manifolds being equal length, not the head castings.

Very possible. In any case I definitely don't feel more than maybe 10hp difference between new and old but hopefully someone with access to a dyno puts their 2019 on one.

 

[5.2 liters of democracy]

The 350 has always had CNC ported heads and they differ from the 500 because they are unequal length bc Ford claims they were having emission issues with equal length. I have a 2019 which is going to be the same engine going into the 2020s and the only real difference I feel is some calibration with a bit more linear throttle but it could just be in my head. As for the 2020 R expect cosmetic aero updates and possibly a new magniride suspension or DSSV suspension with tech borrowed from the Ford Gt not any power updates.

I'm not sure where this is coming from. We've seen the 2020 order guides for the 350/r which states no changes.

 

[Strokerswild]

Any power difference with that small an airflow delta is probably within the margin for error on a dyno.....

 

[Bulldogs22]

I'm not sure where this is coming from. We've seen the 2020 order guides for the 350/r which states no changes.

Its speculation based on the fact they are updating it and not going to re-certify the engine due to cost for only 1 model year. Common sense would tell you it has to be new aero/suspension or the fact Ford may have increased the cost just bc they can since 2020 will be the last year for the R.

 

[nastang87xx]

Some truth came out last year about the Voodoo. Ford actually perfectly replicated the Ferrari 458 Italia's firing order, balance, and sound output, just with 5.2L instead of 4.5L. That means a set of equal length exhaust manifolds were in the cards at one point AND it would be eligible for emissions testing to the EPA. But that's when things started to get interesting. Packaging for the intake manifold and exhaust manifolds become a challenge. The firing order wasn't bespoke to a Mustang. In fact the beta version of the engine had even MORE power potential than the release candidate but lacked the torque punch required for this car. The firing order was changed. The flywheel became heavier to compensate for new harmonic issues. All this forced Ford to redesign the intake and consequently the exhaust manifolds. At the same time, the sound changed and became more muscle car like. Having equal vs non equal length exhaust manifolds doesn't mean emissions compliance cannot be achieved. Witness, BMW S65 V8.

 

[honeybadger]

Some truth came out last year about the Voodoo. Ford actually perfectly replicated the Ferrari 458 Italia's firing order, balance, and sound output, just with 5.2L instead of 4.8L. That means a set of equal length exhaust manifolds were in the cards at one point AND it would be eligible for emissions testing to the EPA. But that's when things started to get interesting. Packaging for the intake manifold and exhaust manifolds become a challenge. The firing order wasn't bespoke to a Mustang. In fact the beta version of the engine had even MORE power potential than the release candidate but lacked the torque punch required for this car. The firing order was changed. The flywheel became heavier to compensate for new harmonic issues. All this forced Ford to redesign the intake and consequently the exhaust manifolds. At the same time, the sound changed and became more muscle car like. Having equal vs non equal length exhaust manifolds doesn't mean emissions compliance cannot be achieved. Witness, BMW S65 V8.

So what you're saying is for HB mk III we should change the firing order and try to replicate the beta version?

Challenge Accepted.

 

[honeybadger]

On a serious note, @nastang87xx response makes it sound like Ford introduced more engineering challenges in order to be different than others in the market. Wonder if that's true. If it is, then it begs the question whether improvements could be made by switching it back and developing the car that way? Hmmm

 

[nastang87xx]

On a serious note, @nastang87xx response makes it sound like Ford introduced more engineering challenges in order to be different than others in the market. Wonder if that's true. If it is, then it begs the question whether improvements could be made by switching it back and developing the car that way? Hmmm

Yeah that's difficult to discern because of the fundamental characteristics of the engine were identical of that of the 458, was there a higher operating area throughout the RPM range at one point? Interestingly enough, if you look at dyno graphs for both the 430 and 458, they both exhibit similar torque drops that the Voodoo does in their lower operating RPM ranges and then just take off, just like the Voodoo but the Voodoo's change is about as dramatic as it gets (3500 RPM climb in torque). I wonder if Ford lost its mid range average power advantage with the original design and it was just TOO peaky. The GT350 is heavy and unlike the 458, it doesn't get the luxury of 7 gears and the 458's 1st gear is shorter than the GT350's for sure.

 

[Demonic]

I thought the reason for not having the UDDU firing order of the 458 was because of the cost and engine bay size issues for having fully separate intake manifolds and throttle bodies?

 

[nastang87xx]

I thought the reason for not having the UDDU firing order of the 458 was because of the cost and engine bay size issues for having fully separate intake manifolds and throttle bodies?

Part, yes. It's a combination of many different factors. Hell.......bean counters too.

 

[nastang87xx]

On a serious note, @nastang87xx response makes it sound like Ford introduced more engineering challenges in order to be different than others in the market. Wonder if that's true. If it is, then it begs the question whether improvements could be made by switching it back and developing the car that way? Hmmm

Yeah I just don't know. I almost wonder if they could have made the car with dual TB's and intakes. I'm sure they could have. But being a Mustang it had to fall within certain parameters of the engine bay layout too so parts didn't get too specialized and costs skyrocketed. I seriously wish Jamal Hameedi were still around....

 

[nastang87xx]

But yeah it's almost Ford Performance recreated a 458 Italia engine that was bored and stroked and then was like "well shit...and now the corner cutting begins because of reasons, and unfortunately there are many."

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