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The true reason unveild behind Gen3 coyote tick. According to MPR racing engines

Hi-PO Stang

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Engine ticks ! Surprised people are so concerned about engine ticks. My 4.7 liter V8 OHC engine in my 2000 JEEP GC has engine ticks for as long as I can remember. It now has 310250 miles and runs as strong as ever. I think some of the engine ticks come from the chains driving the cams. I not about to back off on driving my Jeep hard.
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CrashOverride

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I'm sure this isn't going to get me well liked here, but in my opinion, this is what you get when you take a 4.6L bore center engine designed decades ago and try to get 5L out of it by being cheap and refusing to change tooling. Being that this is a high-revving engine, it should be oversquare not undersquare, and if they had enough deck height, longer rods would help scuffing the thrust side of the pistons. Squeezing the sides so small that you need to use plasma liners (for the 5.2) is pushing it if you ask me.

DOHC = tall engine. Fix? Reduce deck height.
Problem? Shorter rods and/or wrist pin ring gap problem (Or piston skirt coming partially out of the bore at BDC. Fix? Bore out the block.
Problem? Can't (Refuse to change bore spacing). Fix? Make smaller sleeves.
Problem? Can't, not enough meat in block. Fix? Plasma liners so you can bore deeper.
Problem? 4.6L is too small. Fix? Stroke it even more reducing rod length.
Problem? Excess piston scuffing/harder on internals due to piston velocity midstroke. Fix? Make the piston lighter and slightly narrower "loose" to minimize scuffing.

The cycle completes ad nauseam. None of the things are alone a problem, but the combination is a compromise. Happens for every engine, except for possibly F1 engines where it is absolutely insane feats of engineering with practically unlimited budgets and even then reliability isn't much of a concern.

If I was designing the Coyote from the 4.6, I would have pressed hard to increase bore spacing by a lot. Gives lots of room to grow cubes, larger valves, better dwell, better high rpm stability, lower crank throws, lower deck height, lower mounting height in car, better CG.....and stronger support for your owners that like to bore the crap out of the block and/or push 1500hp through a 460hp straw :)

Nevertheless, I love my coyote and even with its faults, think it is probably the best/technologically-advanced American V8 out there. There's not a heck of a lot of technology Ford left on the table. The only engine I can think of that's better is the voodoo, but that's because I'm a huge fan of flat-plane engines...And we all know where the voodoo started from :)
 

CrashOverride

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Engine ticks ! Surprised people are so concerned about engine ticks. My 4.7 liter V8 OHC engine in my 2000 JEEP GC has engine ticks for as long as I can remember. It now has 310250 miles and runs as strong as ever. I think some of the engine ticks come from the chains driving the cams. I not about to back off on driving my Jeep hard.
My 4.7 2001 Dakota does the tap dance as well. FWIW, I found if I park it with the engine at the bottom of my driveway (Lower than the rear wheels) it ticks less. I bought the 4.7 because I wanted to try out a Dodge SOHC engine, but the 4.7 wasn't/isn't that great of an engine for a truck and I like my ol' 5.2/318 much better (Had more torque where I needed it). Eh, Dodge fixed it with the Hemi.
 

Excel

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I blame the crappy 5W20 oil and CAFE standard that cause manufactures to use it despite knowing it reduces engine life.

Emissions and the cafe standards etc def takes the fun out of many vehicles...Diesels especially but what the mfgs are doing is tring to squeeze more MPG
from the line up. At our expense
 

UAmach1

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I am told that the plasma coating was used successfully in the 5.8 GT500 and 5.2 Voodoo engines, but the engines were almost hand built due to low production numbers. Going to mass production engines is causing more deviations in tolerances, thus more failures. It will be interesting to see what solutions that Ford finally comes out with.
That coating is also now being done in-house instead of the blocks being sent out to the company that created the process.
 

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Loki-GT

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1) You guys are seriously flashing me back to my 2011 MT82 transmission troubles with this discussion
2) You guys are seriously making me question my recent decision to do an intake and tune on my 18 as i don't want ford weasling out of honoring an engine warranty by blaming the tune.

Thanks for the buzzz kills guys.
Just did the CAI and tune.... this should be interesting.
 

accel

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I'm sure this isn't going to get me well liked here, but in my opinion, this is what you get when you take a 4.6L bore center engine designed decades ago and try to get 5L out of it by being cheap and refusing to change tooling. Being that this is a high-revving engine, it should be oversquare not undersquare, and if they had enough deck height, longer rods would help scuffing the thrust side of the pistons. Squeezing the sides so small that you need to use plasma liners (for the 5.2) is pushing it if you ask me.

DOHC = tall engine. Fix? Reduce deck height.
Problem? Shorter rods and/or wrist pin ring gap problem (Or piston skirt coming partially out of the bore at BDC. Fix? Bore out the block.
Problem? Can't (Refuse to change bore spacing). Fix? Make smaller sleeves.
Problem? Can't, not enough meat in block. Fix? Plasma liners so you can bore deeper.
Problem? 4.6L is too small. Fix? Stroke it even more reducing rod length.
Problem? Excess piston scuffing/harder on internals due to piston velocity midstroke. Fix? Make the piston lighter and slightly narrower "loose" to minimize scuffing.

The cycle completes ad nauseam. None of the things are alone a problem, but the combination is a compromise. Happens for every engine, except for possibly F1 engines where it is absolutely insane feats of engineering with practically unlimited budgets and even then reliability isn't much of a concern.

If I was designing the Coyote from the 4.6, I would have pressed hard to increase bore spacing by a lot. Gives lots of room to grow cubes, larger valves, better dwell, better high rpm stability, lower crank throws, lower deck height, lower mounting height in car, better CG.....and stronger support for your owners that like to bore the crap out of the block and/or push 1500hp through a 460hp straw :)

Nevertheless, I love my coyote and even with its faults, think it is probably the best/technologically-advanced American V8 out there. There's not a heck of a lot of technology Ford left on the table. The only engine I can think of that's better is the voodoo, but that's because I'm a huge fan of flat-plane engines...And we all know where the voodoo started from :)
My service advisor was describing me the root of the issue in similar terms.
 

GN34

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Seeing that proper engine oil temperature may be extra important for this engine's operation, which gauge or combination of gauges should be used to insure that the engine oil is at operating temperature.
It's not as obvious now that the Engine Oil Temp Gauge has been removed from the 2019s and some 2018s.
Right now, I'm waiting for the Transmission Temp Gauge to move out of the blue sector (about 120F). It lags behind the other temps.

I have 1,700 miles on my 2019 PP1 A10 and it's quiet so far except for a little rattle at start-up.
 

Loki-GT

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I got a new one for you guys.
Have a new Bullitt with 300 miles on it. Been very careful with it since day 1. Got it with 6 miles on it so nobody drove the car but me. I let it warm up and once fully warm I have not been over 4K rpm's once.
So every time I start the car from cold the engine chirps like a bird for a good 10 minutes. After that is is completely silent. The chirping sounds like it's coming from the passenger side cylinder head.
Every Ford I buy gives me trouble. I had an 86GT than burned 15 quarts of oil in 3000 miles until they finally put a new engine in it after a battle of course.
I also have a MOPAR Hemi with a good old-fashioned cast iron block. Runs like a dream. Guess they are not as stupid as Ford yet. No more Ford's for me! Good luck to all pray you get a good one.
They all have one issue or another, the list for Mopar is long so as far as stupid goes, there is plenty with all car companies, we could have a field day with Mopar, Mercedes, Audi, GM, VW insert car company here_____ visit any of their forums. So have you sold your Bullitt? Have you had it diagnosed?
 

usgiorgi

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They all have one issue or another, the list for Mopar is long so as far as stupid goes, there is plenty with all car companies, we could have a field day with Mopar, Mercedes, Audi, GM, VW insert car company here_____ visit any of their forums. So have you sold your Bullitt? Have you had it diagnosed?
Please link another car forum where the users report such high number of engine issues resulting in replacement, buyback, lemon law, etc...
 

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Loki-GT

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Of course, otherwise all Gen3 Coyotes would tick and rattle. Only the ones with fooked up clearances do that.
"I don't give a fook!" Ok, I had to do that and now in my head I hear him saying it. :crackup:
 

Loki-GT

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Please link another car forum where the users report such high number of engine issues resulting in replacement, buyback, lemon law, etc...
I don't see it in THIS forum that there are high number of buy backs, maybe you can post a link to them?

I said every car company has issues and to check out their forums and you'll see that and that's a fact and most have had a major issue where people are losing their shit over it, head over to the Camaro forum, they have plenty to bitch about.
 

usgiorgi

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I don't see it in THIS forum that there are high number of buy backs, maybe you can post a link to them?

I said every car company has issues and to check out their forums and you'll see that and that's a fact and most have had a major issue where people are losing their shit over it, head over to the Camaro forum, they have plenty to bitch about.
Of course every car manufacturer has issues. They range from ill fitting trim to engine replacements. This thread, just like many others, is about engine issues with the Mustangs. Other issues are irrelevant whether they're about the Mustang or a GTI. As far as buybacks go, whats considered a large number to you?
 

Loki-GT

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Im from the club that says if you cant afford to fix it dont mod it!!

Thats not to say you cant own a mustang but just be smart about the mods you choose and dont be a whiny vagina.

Got a warranty? Send it! Drive the car and enjoy it. Obviously Ford only cares to address things after the fact.

Or mod it and be prepared to eat the costs alone with it should something goes wrong! That goes for amy .odded car I dont care what emblem it wears!!

Gotta pay to play. Lastest and greatest is going to have some quirks of its own and staying with the latest and greatest is NEVER cheap.
Responding to the bold underlined comment, how do you expect anybody to respond before the fact, it hasn't happened yet. ALL CAR companies base things on cost and try to get away with something until the bean counters / lawyers tell them the cost is too high, either to the brand or to their bottom line the air bag fiasco proved that out. People are acting like this is a Ford issue, for the nearly 6 decades I've been alive there have been major issues for one car company or another almost every other year that turned into a major fiasco and when it cost the car company above what they are willing to pay, they do something about it then, until then they have algorithms and lawyers up the ying yang telling them to keep their yaps shut until its time not to.

A quick search brought up a crap ton of major recalls, law suits you name it. Bottom line none of the car companies are our friends, they don't give a rats ass about you me or anybody else. They know if they screw up there is a magic number that causes them to act, or there is a law that forces them to but it's very rare that a car company does the right thing without being forced to do so. I buy Ford not because they take care of me but because I have had the best luck with them since I started driving in 1980,. The dealer I buy from takes care of me, not because of who I am but because I am a repeat buyer since 1985 so they go out of their way when I walk in. We'll see how well my '18 A10 GT holds up and if the tick happens and it turns out to be an engine problem, I'll find out if they step up or not.
 

BlueCollarDaily

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I have a late build 2019 started doing it pretty bad....and while I have a YouTube this is my first Ford and first new car in 27 years I prefer to build than buy hut have health problems...for me it's not about clicks I wanted people clicking on my channel to see prochargers passes and burnouts not tifking....My car will be my town mascot and I had to drive 4hrs to get it....no ticks at dealer ( 120 miles ) no ticks after the long drive varying load as best I could but not going over 4000 rpm...not ticks on other cars I looked at...I took a video when I got home for posterity ...the very next morning after it's first full jeat soak and cool down....tick...then worse and worse now it's got 1200 miles and I dread the battle to come, I'm in poor health and it wouldn't be worth a million clicks to prepare a binder.....send out oil samples ....make them cut open filter and then try to hold my temper when they pretend not to hear it forcing the issue then if I get a motor it's diminished value and lawyer time so who the hell in their right mind would don't to make a few videos...I also plan to bore scope it myself before I go in armed with as much info as possible.........
It's pretty simply it IS the PTWA tech but it's not thrbprobthe thanks to MPR we know the bore grows .005 when at operating temp, we also know the Voodoo doesn't do it...IMHO it's not because it's hand built to exacting tolerances it's that it uses a forged piston that expands with the bore at a greater rate than the cast ones in our motors...simple shit to get the hot running clearance right they would have to be less than .001 which has it's own problems...should have stayed traditional liner and cast or given us at least a 4032 alloy piston where there is a chance of success ...in fact if I have to pull my engine down I'll he trying to use a forged piston...it's the only real tangible difference between why the Voodoo doesn't tick and we do with same bore tech and it makes perfect sense if we, like my October build 19, get an engine loose ( and I'm used to letting a car warm before I to because I run 2618 alloy in my motors usually it's just automatic after so many years ) on the bore spec and piston small on the range we get to much clearance and have the tick...instead of sending a long block they probably should just do a drop in order on some 4032 alloy pistons for us ...be cheaper in long run than entire engine.....
As I've said in videos I'm not mad we have the issue I'm mad with how Ford is sticking their heads in the sand and pretending it's not even making the noise thanks Shawn I'll keep this forum updated on my case and I as a first time for owner ( maybe builder soon) appreciate the info in this site .......
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