The true reason unveild behind Gen3 coyote tick. According to MPR racing engines

[TomcatDriver]

Sure...

But it's called research and development...

They failed on both accounts here.

Can't tell me that not ONE single development car/motor displayed this issue back in lets say 2016/2017 when Gen III was on the birthing table. This shit isn't a over time thing. This isn't a owner abuse/neglect issue. These are BRAND NEW CARS... and A LOT of them are seeing this.

I used to do this stuff in Detroit. I worked on development teams for DCX (at the time) and Ford. We found issues and passed them back up the chain for the $100 haircuts to re-engineer.

Computer simulation and less on the stand/on the road testing is gonna be the death of QA!

It is completely possible that prototype engines tested performed fine and the rattle/knock is the result of manufacturing process errors that were not present during testing. The possibilities are endless. A new manufacture for rings, the actual performance of any of a number of machines creeping toward the edge of tolerance, or maybe the junction of two or more tolerances, each of which are fine but when two go in opposite (or the same) direction it causes a problem.

Now what would be surprising is if Ford was not dissecting every replaced engine to figure out exactly what the problem was and fix it. Every warranty claim probably eats close to 100% of any profit Ford had since a Gen3 engine + install is probably running $8-10K.

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[engineermike]

If the issue was due to “block mix up”, isn’t there part numbers that differentiate a car block and associated internals from a truck block and same internals?

So is the assumption that somehow engines were being assembled wrong at X-location and then shipped to 2 different assembly plants Flatrock (Mustang) or Dearborn (F150)?

Sometimes oems will have different size parts to accommodate different size mating parts. I’ve seen this before with Japanese products as far back as 20 years ago.

My understanding is that there are 3 different piston sizes they use to accommodate variations in block bore sizes. Nothing wrong with that approach as it may be easier to machine pistons accurately than blocks. However, the theory presented is that there is a piston mixup so the wrong pistons (small) were matched with the block (large), creating extra clearance. It’s not necessarily an egregious part number mixup, like truck vs car.

 

[Allentown]

1) You guys are seriously flashing me back to my 2011 MT82 transmission troubles with this discussion
2) You guys are seriously making me question my recent decision to do an intake and tune on my 18 as i don't want ford weasling out of honoring an engine warranty by blaming the tune.

Thanks for the buzzz kills guys.

 

[Lerxst]

...

Thanks for the buzzz kills guys.

These forums, YouTube, the internet in general, will kill just about any buzz you can get if you let it.

 

[LETHAL]

It is completely possible that prototype engines tested performed fine and the rattle/knock is the result of manufacturing process errors that were not present during testing. The possibilities are endless. A new manufacture for rings, the actual performance of any of a number of machines creeping toward the edge of tolerance, or maybe the junction of two or more tolerances, each of which are fine but when two go in opposite (or the same) direction it causes a problem.

Now what would be surprising is if Ford was not dissecting every replaced engine to figure out exactly what the problem was and fix it. Every warranty claim probably eats close to 100% of any profit Ford had since a Gen3 engine + install is probably running $8-10K.

Not impossible, but again toward the end of development, there are always samples of " production level" vehicles that are made on the line, use production revision parts and are tested to try to make them fail and note where they fail or IF they fail.

Having a hard time thinking this issue never reared it's head.

1) You guys are seriously flashing me back to my 2011 MT82 transmission troubles with this discussion
2) You guys are seriously making me question my recent decision to do an intake and tune on my 18 as i don't want ford weasling out of honoring an engine warranty by blaming the tune.

Thanks for the buzzz kills guys.

The tick and rattle are a known trouble issue. I don't believe Ford would be able to or really want to go that route with us.

I kid around but it's a concern... Dealer gonna put my LTH's back on when they replace my motor? LOL

 

[Allentown]

Not impossible, but again toward the end of development, there are always samples of " production level" vehicles that are made on the line, use production revision parts and are tested to try to make them fail and note where they fail or IF they fail.

Having a hard time thinking this issue never reared it's head.


The tick and rattle are a known trouble issue. I don't believe Ford would be able to or really want to go that route with us.

I kid around but it's a concern... Dealer gonna put my LTH's back on when they replace my motor? LOL

How do you even hear the tick with headers? I just have a muffler delete and i can't hear squat. It could be ticking like the opening of 60 minutes and i wouldn't be able to hear it.

 

[sZedely]

Did you see the case of the base F-150 shipping with a single Raptor driver seat? No idea how NO ONE saw that before it hit the dealers lot. If something that big can make it through, anything can. If I remember a GT got GT350, or another years tails in one case also.

Haven't heard of those incidents, but sadly it doesn't surprise me.
These issues are known by those at the end of the production lines. How these things happen repeatedly and no real changes are made to correct the glaring issue is beyond me. Why wouldn't you take pride in your work? Those repeated mistakes not only represent the company, but they represent all the people that work there.
Personally, I don't want to make others look bad. Let alone myself. Which is why I try my hardest to do my best. Even if I fail, I try to correct the issue accordingly. But that's me...

Off of the soap box now...

 

[LETHAL]

Haven't heard of those incidents, but sadly it doesn't surprise me.
These issues are known by those at the end of the production lines. How these things happen repeatedly and no real changes are made to correct the glaring issue is beyond me. Why wouldn't you take pride in your work? Those repeated mistakes not only represent the company, but they represent all the people that work there.
Personally, I don't want to make others look bad. Let alone myself. Which is why I try my hardest to do my best. Even if I fail, I try to correct the issue accordingly. But that's me...

Off of the soap box now...

Reminds me of the Ford Contour (dates the story) that arrived at my dealer off the haulaway with one side badged as a Contour and the other as a Mercury Mystique. The car was beige, but the rear bumper was dark red and the front bumper was moss green.

That vehicle left the plant like this and found it's way to the dealer.

 

[LETHAL]

How do you even hear the tick with headers? I just have a muffler delete and i can't hear squat. It could be ticking like the opening of 60 minutes and i wouldn't be able to hear it.

The Corsa long tubes don't make a lot of noise up front. The Xtremes out back... do LOL

 

[Notagain]

Holy Geezus the random assumptions in this thread and the Kool aide drinkin or whatever Pro 5.0 is on must be some good shit it makes my head hurt going through 4 pages of this thread.

Anyone ever found someone on youtube that does NOT have the OMGBBQTICK engine?

LOL seems like every single one does and every single new mustang channel just makes videos whinimg about the engines.

But hey what does it matter the clicks and engine ticks make them money LMFAO.

Every youtube jackhole spewing bullshit and unfounded random guesses is just as bad as this thread.

Ive got 2018 5.0 A10, I use the auto start ever morning amd drive it like I stole it with cruise set at 80 mph down the insterstate every single day since i got the car in sept.

Not a single noise from mine but hey maybe apparently kind of sort of I just must be one of the lucky ones.....

SMH.

 

[thehunterooo]

Holy Geezus the random assumptions in this thread and the Kool aide drinkin or whatever Pro 5.0 is on must be some good shit it makes my head hurt going through 4 pages of this thread.

Anyone ever found someone on youtube that does NOT have the OMGBBQTICK engine?

LOL seems like every single one does and every single new mustang channel just makes videos whinimg about the engines.

But hey what does it matter the clicks and engine ticks make them money LMFAO.

Every youtube jackhole spewing bullshit and unfounded random guesses is just as bad as this thread.

Ive got 2018 5.0 A10, I use the auto start ever morning amd drive it like I stole it with cruise set at 80 mph down the insterstate every single day since i got the car in sept.

Not a single noise from mine but hey maybe apparently kind of sort of I just must be one of the lucky ones.....

SMH.

#youtub3livesmatter #youtub3rsstanduptoford #pleasesubscribe

 

[AZ18yote]

Not impossible, but again toward the end of development, there are always samples of " production level" vehicles that are made on the line, use production revision parts and are tested to try to make them fail and note where they fail or IF they fail.

Having a hard time thinking this issue never reared it's head.


The tick and rattle are a known trouble issue. I don't believe Ford would be able to or really want to go that route with us.

I kid around but it's a concern... Dealer gonna put my LTH's back on when they replace my motor? LOL

Hahaha yes especially if cattless, they will jump at the chance.... said no dealer ever. All kidding aside excellent point.

 

[Notagain]

Eventually Ford will cave like the same on the RS engines. There will be a bandaide fix.

But its going to be expensive just like the 900k plus vehicles ford recalled last week dating back to like 2010 or 2011 iirc for airbag issues again.

 

[AZ18yote]

Eventually Ford will cave like the same on the RS engines. There will be a bandaide fix.

But its going to be expensive just like the 900k plus vehicles ford recalled last week dating back to like 2010 or 2011 iirc for airbag issues again.

Bandaids and ductape yay!

 

[GT Pony]

To add to that, he stated the bore centers are very often off by up to .012'' I believe....some worse than others which lends to Ford's variances in exact tolerances in areas other than just bore spacing. That explains to me why some tick and some don't. Some engines are more within the tolerances and some are not due to inexact manufacturing procedures. I see this regularly in all types of manufacturing in my industry.

I don't see how the bore centers being off up to 0.012" (and that was from cyl 1 to cyl 4, meaning less than that between adjacent cylinders) would make any difference. I say that because the Coyote has free floating piston pins, and the rod is capable of moving side to side way more than a few thousands of an inch. That means the rods will "self center" themselves between the piston and crank journal by floating to their natural resting spot.

That free floating ability might also be the cause of the BBQ tick if the rod big end side-to-side clearance is too excessive and out of spec.

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