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The Fate on the ICE

Hack

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You're still missing the point. Of course you think ICE has more character! Next time something like this happens it may very well be with a generation that's never experienced the ICE so whatever their norm is, will "have more character." You say "no" so definitively but, again, you were not there. I think it's a bit narrow minded to think no one, back then, felt and discussed automobiles as replacing a way of life.
I'm sure you're right that some people didn't want to get rid of their horses. And they didn't - unless they CHOSE to do it.
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dx2

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I'm sure you're right that some people didn't want to get rid of their horses. And they didn't - unless they CHOSE to do it.
I had a quick look at a summary on quora.com since this question was quite interesting.

Apparently people were mistreating horses so badly that rules and laws were made that made the use of horses for transportation very unpleasant and expensive. While cars became cheaper horses were replaced by cars for transportation.

So horses were not really banned at that time in early 20th century.
And still today there does not seem to be a general ban for use on roads. but most states seem to prohibit horses on highways.

Until now I assumed that horses were not allowed for transportation anymore given the speed limits on roads today and the danger this means for the horses.

Law here says that animals which are a danger to the traffic are not allowed on the road and that the rider must be skilled enough. There is no license for that though.

Honestly I cannot image that there is any horse that would like it to see being overtaken by just every other vehicle with more horse power.
 

K4fxd

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The Amish use horses and buggies to this day. Only requirement for on road use is a slow vehicle sign.
 

Hack

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I assume there might be some areas that outlaw horses. I was thinking NYC, but then I remembered the police used horses there during my lifetime. Not sure if they still do.
 

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shogun32

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Honestly I cannot image that there is any horse that would like it to see being overtaken by just every other vehicle with more horse power.
not been to Amish country eh? 2 lane highway (50-60mph limit) and buggies trotting along half off the road, half in it. Semi-trucks whizzing by and all that.

Then you roll up to the family diner and there's a string of horses tied up to the rail, snorting and stamping their feet in the miserable cold (like damn my balls ache just walking across the parking lot, cold) while the families are inside enjoying 'English' inventions like central air, steam tables, modern glassware, and illumination from that magical invisible force called electricity generated 300 miles away in the bowels of a coal-fired power plant and it's gyro-thingies.
 

ice445

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But that is the thing, ev's are not better for the enviroment. It just moves the pollution from a tail pipe. to the mining and then power plants and recycling of battery.
Ev's will REQUIRE areas on the globe that are not industrialized to become industrialized and those area will not have any enviro reg's in place.
Now id air stayed hovering over one place forever and water never evap'd and then moved with the clouds and then dumped the moisture someplace else, and oceans and seas didn't flow out of a local area. it only effect that area, but that isn't how mother nature works. So the pollution is just out of sight, out of mind. With no net gain in lowering any of the evil man made unicorn farts. As this whole farce will make whole countries industrialized without any regulations on pollution. But it'll make yuppies feel good about themselves as the sip from that latte
I'm tired of this argument. The best benefit of the EV is that you minimize localized pollution and improve air quality for everyone. Power plants can be placed far from urban centers. The pollution doesn't always magically go away. I can name plenty of urban centers with big smog issues and there's plenty of medical evidence smog kills a LOT of people over time, both directly and indirectly. On top of that, you remove many fuel and oil spills from roads.

And no, you aren't just moving all the pollution to those power plants, even though that would still be useful. Even accounting for transfer losses, its way more efficient to burn gas at a plant, turn it to electricity, and then use it to create kinetic energy in a car than it is to burn gasoline directly in said car. Gas will always be useful, especially for extreme environments, but its an inferior generation source.

Also, we already destroy the earth mining everything else, and lithium has been in high demand for a while now since we all buy a new phone every year.
 

Silver Bullitt

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I had a quick look at a summary on quora.com since this question was quite interesting.

Apparently people were mistreating horses so badly that rules and laws were made that made the use of horses for transportation very unpleasant and expensive. While cars became cheaper horses were replaced by cars for transportation.

So horses were not really banned at that time in early 20th century.
And still today there does not seem to be a general ban for use on roads. but most states seem to prohibit horses on highways.

Until now I assumed that horses were not allowed for transportation anymore given the speed limits on roads today and the danger this means for the horses.

Law here says that animals which are a danger to the traffic are not allowed on the road and that the rider must be skilled enough. There is no license for that though.

Honestly I cannot image that there is any horse that would like it to see being overtaken by just every other vehicle with more horse power.
Come to Missouri and you can see this nearly every day. For you coast boys, Missouri is right smack dab between NY and Commifornia in good old fly over country. Doesn’t require gas or electricity, but may produce methane as a byproduct of bad feed. This may be just the answer to replace EV’s. Kind of full circle you might say.

48F01BB7-6E4D-42A7-B576-D7C212F1BC29.jpeg
 
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shogun32

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since we all buy a new phone every year.
eh? I think mine is at least 4yrs old and my friend just finally gave in and had the original battery changed out in his iPhone 4
 

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shogun32

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This may be just the answer to replace EV’s. Kind of full circle you might say.
it gets incredible gas mileage, is made of all-renewable resources, it fertilizes Mother Earth while it operates. And if you need a bigger trunk, you lash a few donkeys to the back.

I got no truck with EVs that have 50-80mi range and have a 800cc twin or triple (or rotary) that drives a generator. Even better if it burns water (h20) or NatGas. Rear-wheel drive of course. Top speed 80-90mph
 
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ICU812

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I'm tired of this argument. The best benefit of the EV is that you minimize localized pollution and improve air quality for everyone. Power plants can be placed far from urban centers. The pollution doesn't always magically go away. I can name plenty of urban centers with big smog issues and there's plenty of medical evidence smog kills a LOT of people over time, both directly and indirectly. On top of that, you remove many fuel and oil spills from roads.

And no, you aren't just moving all the pollution to those power plants, even though that would still be useful. Even accounting for transfer losses, its way more efficient to burn gas at a plant, turn it to electricity, and then use it to create kinetic energy in a car than it is to burn gasoline directly in said car. Gas will always be useful, especially for extreme environments, but its an inferior generation source.

Also, we already destroy the earth mining everything else, and lithium has been in high demand for a while now since we all buy a new phone every year.
You understand jet streams, right.
So you are an out of site, out of mine, it isn't harmful pollution because we MOVED it.
Got it.
Good day.
 

xSouthSyde

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Living in Australia where the major cities are thousands of km’s apart I think my V8 ICE will be safe during my lifetime.
I’m not against electric but I would like to have a choice.
 

ice445

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You understand jet streams, right.
So you are an out of site, out of mine, it isn't harmful pollution because we MOVED it.
Got it.
Good day.
Wow, that's weird. I didn't know we lived and functioned directly in the jet stream. I'm not sure if you're being intentionally obtuse or have the false idea that an EV world has just as much pollution as one with gas cars, which is just factually not true. Not sure how else to frame that. An EV can have upwards of 90% efficiency, a gas engine at best can do 40%. An EV can be powered by clean energy, or "dirty" energy that's still far more efficient than a gas engine. A natural gas plant is almost twice as efficient as the average combustion engine, AND has the bonus of scrubbing equipment to capture particulates, something that the GDI motors of today lack.

So to simplify, an EV world has power plants far away from urban centers polluting over a much wider area compared to the literal blanket of gas engine cars we currently have in our society. Gas cars are constantly polluting basically every square inch of urban area, at all times you're probably breathing some of the byproducts. Is it a big deal necessarily? No, but why would anyone want that if it didn't have to be that way? And that's completely ignoring the fact that an EV can be entirely powered by energy sources that are renewable or ones that don't pollute the air (nuclear). EV battery packs also aren't chemically destroyed over their life time, it's not economical now but it's possible to recycle the expensive elements. How do you recycle a gallon of gasoline after it's burned? Oh right, it's just "gone" forever, floating in the atmosphere for hundreds of years. The useful lifetime to get that back into its original form is well beyond generations of humans.

I could go on but if you don't get what I'm saying, then there's not much to discuss. I obviously love gas cars like everyone else on here, but come on now.
 

Vlad Soare

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No, but why would anyone want that if it didn't have to be that way?
Oh, but for the time being it does have to be that way, because there simply isn't any other comparable alternative. EVs are currently just a lousy workaround that just happens to work for some; they are not a viable alternative.
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