The Fate on the ICE

[K4fxd]

I wonder if people had this debate when automobiles were taking over.

No because no one forced the automobile on them. It proved to be a better way for transportation. This is like the CFL bulbs that were forced on us, when a real better item came along we switched willingly LED's.

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[Dfeeds]

When cars (and roads) sucked, it totally made sense to prefer a horse. If electric cars were cheaper and easier to live with than cars with ICEs - lots of people would own electric. We need 2 minute full charges, 200K battery life and electric cars starting at $10,000. Then we will see everyone buying them.

My point is that the argument will remain the same just change the current tech with the new tech, regardless of what it is. "I refuse to use teleporters and the government is shoving them down our throats. You lose all the fun of strapping yourself in and watching things move around you!" I find the thought amusing.

No because no one forced the automobile on them. It proved to be a better way for transportation. This is like the CFL bulbs that were forced on us, when a real better item came along we switched willingly LED's.

You're taking my post way too seriously. Besides, you wouldn't know. Neither of us were alive. It's not like they had anything to document their bar room talk. I also don't think using bulbs is the best example because no one has to shift their lifestyle to adapt to them. I get your point and I agree that we're still waiting for the next "LED," for automobiles, but my life was never adversely affected by screwing in a CFL bulb or even really improved by using an LED bulb.

 

[Silver Bullitt]

but my life was never adversely affected by screwing in a CFL bulb

You obviously never dropped one and followed the recommended clean up procedures.

 

[Dfeeds]

You obviously never dropped one and followed the recommended clean up procedures.

Actually no, I haven't lol. I've broken CFL bulbs but the only places I've dropped them were carpeted so the bulb, fortunately, didn't break.

 

[Rilla]

Don't think for a min that electric rates won't go up.
I can see 1K per month electric bills for the avg home in my lifetime.

It's all screwed up man. I'm going to do some research into how those lithium batteries are made and if it does any harm to our world

 

[MidwayJ]

Electric cars will keep coming down in price and the range will keep getting better. Operating costs are already lower. It will reach a point where people who can charge at home will overwhelmingly choose EVs for city commuter cars for purely economic reasons.

Those who can't charge at home and who use cars a lot for trips will be slower to adopt but charging infrastructure will gradually improve. Lower cost for consumers will drive the rise of EVs now that the automakers have committed to them.

 

[K4fxd]

Operating costs are already lower.

You are forgetting they are killing off coal and gas power stations. Soon electric rates will offset any savings

 

[dx2]

Electric cars will keep coming down in price and the range will keep getting better. Operating costs are already lower. It will reach a point where people who can charge at home will overwhelmingly choose EVs for city commuter cars for purely economic reasons.

Those who can't charge at home and who use cars a lot for trips will be slower to adopt but charging infrastructure will gradually improve. Lower cost for consumers will drive the rise of EVs now that the automakers have committed to them.

Yep, EVs, one day, will become dirt cheap for home owners with photovoltaic who do not have to pay for electricity unless sunlight gets taxes.

 

[K4fxd]

Yep, EVs, one day, will become dirt cheap for home owners with photovoltaic

Depends on where you reside. One of my daughters got the solar panel roof. They still have to buy electricity especially in the winter.

The real joke is when the panels are paid off they will need replacing.

 

[dx2]

Depends on where you reside. One of my daughters got the solar panel roof. They still have to buy electricity especially in the winter.

The real joke is when the panels are paid off they will need replacing.

yes, sun light hours will be less in the winter and sometimes it won't be enough to charge the buffer battery for the remaning hours.

True, that it takes a while until it is paid-off.
With higher electricity price, say 30 cents / kwh it won't take 8 years to pay them off, maybe even less when the electricity price rises which I expect because our government knows best how to suck up more money from an financially battered country. doesn't even matter to them that gas prices are 30% more expensive within 1 year.

the panels will last quite long but efficiency will degrade more and more, the inverters (dc/ac) might probably fail earlier than that and of course buffer battery capacity will decrease as well.
the ultimate efficiency of solar panels is 33% (shockley-queisser limit) which most panels do not achieve. A few years back research in the field found ways using perovskite solar cells to increase this limit to 44% (gomez-weerd).

In winter when the sun is available for at least 2.5 hours, I have enough energy for the remaining day (and night), the remaining daylight hours, it can be cloudy which yields still sufficient energy but not always enough for power hungry devices.

 

[Hack]

My point is that the argument will remain the same just change the current tech with the new tech, regardless of what it is. "I refuse to use teleporters and the government is shoving them down our throats. You lose all the fun of strapping yourself in and watching things move around you!" I find the thought amusing.

I disagree. I think the ICE does have more character due to the noises it makes. Also personally I won't buy a car that doesn't have a manual transmission, because I don't think it's fun to drive. And then take into account that an electric car is more expensive. That's three strikes.

You're taking my post way too seriously. Besides, you wouldn't know. Neither of us were alive. It's not like they had anything to document their bar room talk. I also don't think using bulbs is the best example because no one has to shift their lifestyle to adapt to them. I get your point and I agree that we're still waiting for the next "LED," for automobiles, but my life was never adversely affected by screwing in a CFL bulb or even really improved by using an LED bulb.

If the government forces people to do something with laws, of course it's different. You don't have to have been in a bar listening to people talk. My life was adversely effected by CFL bulbs because they hurt my eyes. And it hurt my brain knowing the government was doing that crap to us. It made me feel like I was in a banana republic. Now I realize it was only foreshadowing.

 

[ICU812]

I won't buy an electric car yet cause I think they still have too many shortcomings that would bother me. Short range, long charge times, and lack of charge stations especially in rural areas. But these things will likely be resolved in the not too distant future, and at that time why wouldn't I switch to electric? Why hang on to a dying technology if there's a superior alternative? I'll probably miss the rumble of my Mustang's V8 but noise alone isn't a good enough reason to keep it.

What concerns me is what will happen to motorcycles. Motorcycling is my #1 hobby. Due to their size and shape it's unlikely electric bikes will ever become viable unless there is a major breakthrough in battery technology. The current existing electric bikes have pitiful range that makes them impractical except in a city.

Too many Areas of the country that I travel to, or live in. have storms that take out the electric power from days to weeks.
This isn't going to change.
Unless ev's move to the cordless tool model of interchangeable batteries so you can have a spare or two charged and ready and they are not 6000.00 a piece. They'll never work. Nothing like seeing a neighbor charging his Tesla with a diesel/gas generator .
It is every easy to before a storm stock up an extra "charge" in a fuel burning vehicle. 4) 5 gallon fuel jugs (under a 100.00 bucks one time cost) and the fuel to put in them .
So for a whopping 180.00 (if that) I have over 800 miles of range to weather a storm. Ev's will be whatever charge it has and that's it. The electric power grid is to fragile In the whole country to bank on it being up when you'd need it. And this isn't going to change anytime soon with power wires hanging on poles.
The range is even worse in the winter/cold. THEN add the fact of the human requiring the use of an electric heater in the cold weather killing the range even more, and the first storm or flood after ev's are a bigger market share that many are up craps creek with broken paddles, will put a sour taste in the buyer's mouths. Electric motors and water don't mix well, never have never will. Where again do they put the battery packs? There is a place for everything, but many are going to learn the hard way that areas with storms are not going to work with ev's.

 

[shogun32]

Yep, EVs, one day, will become dirt cheap for home owners with photovoltaic who do not have to pay for electricity unless sunlight gets taxes.

they already tax rain water run-off (looking at you Maryland) so yes, some goose-stepping SOB will figure out a way to tax sunlight-advantaged people (single-family home not in the shadow of a skyscraper) to compensate the people who are sunlight-disadvantaged (apartment/city dwellers).

 

[Bullitt0819]

How many of you truly believe the US Government will be the death of the internal combustion engine? I feel like the Rush song Red Barchetta. I don't care how fast electric cars become they have no soul. Do you think we will be able to buy gas for the next 50 years? Not trying to start a political debate. Just wondering how many of you will drive an ICE until you just can't.

We've had two new gas station(Arco and 76)/sandwich shop/Starbucks mini-complexes built within a mile of my house in the last year-and-a-half. The 'money' seems to think gasoline will be around for a while (and I'm in California).

 

[Dfeeds]

I disagree. I think the ICE does have more character due to the noises it makes. Also personally I won't buy a car that doesn't have a manual transmission, because I don't think it's fun to drive. And then take into account that an electric car is more expensive. That's three strikes.


If the government forces people to do something with laws, of course it's different. You don't have to have been in a bar listening to people talk. My life was adversely effected by CFL bulbs because they hurt my eyes. And it hurt my brain knowing the government was doing that crap to us. It made me feel like I was in a banana republic. Now I realize it was only foreshadowing.

You're still missing the point. Of course you think ICE has more character! Next time something like this happens it may very well be with a generation that's never experienced the ICE so whatever their norm is, will "have more character." You say "no" so definitively but, again, you were not there. I think it's a bit narrow minded to think no one, back then, felt and discussed automobiles as replacing a way of life.

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