Superchargers and HPDE/Road course

pappagray

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 29, 2021
Threads
11
Messages
174
Reaction score
265
Location
Canada
First Name
Brandon
Vehicle(s)
2021 PP1
Hey everyone,

Log story short, have a good amount of laps under my belt. Have been track driving my new Mach 1, but I still also use it as a sunny day driver in the summer.
I'm looking to add forced induction, not shooting for BIG HP, just add some more RELIABLE power. Previously I have used both Roots and centrifugal systems, but I'm leaning toward a pro-charger and OPG's.

Has anyone here had any experience with a decent amount of Laps with a forced induction system on this platform? I'm afraid of running into heat and reliability issues. Plan on 7-8psi, and a big upgraded intercooler.

Thanks for the input

 

Ewheels

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2019
Threads
56
Messages
1,143
Reaction score
1,248
Location
SoCal
First Name
Eric
Vehicle(s)
2018 GT PP1
Vehicle Showcase
1
No personal experience here but it's the general rule of thumb that forced induction and road racing do not mix well. That being said, most of the REALLY fast race cars all have forced induction.

The problem, as you're aware, is cooling. You seem to know what you're getting into so I won't bother with the details but cooling will absolutely be your biggest problem. Intercoolers, bigger radiator (rear mount radiator??), higher octane fuel, lots of efficient air flow, ect will all help....you'll have to find what is sufficient for your setup.

Also consider if you want a w2w car that can handle 30 min+ sessions or do you only need the car to set 1 or 2 fast laps and then cool down. That will dictate how much cooling you need. Most of the guys I know have their cars setup to handle just a couple hot laps and that's it. PAE's S550 is a twin turbo w2w car but they have some serious cooling mods done to it as well.

Hope this helps!



EDIT: some easy additional power could come from intake, headers, catback, e85, and tune. That'll make you 60-80 whp without too much additional heat
 
OP
OP
pappagray

pappagray

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 29, 2021
Threads
11
Messages
174
Reaction score
265
Location
Canada
First Name
Brandon
Vehicle(s)
2021 PP1
e85 in my area is basically like unicorn piss, so its kind of out of question. My car is a Mach1, so already has the GT350 intake, tb, CAI. Also has the increased cooling capabilities like the gt350s including the diff

MY car will be setup for 20-25 minute sessions is what I'm shooting for. What kind additional cooling do you think i'll be into? I'm in southern Ontario, hottest track day might be 30 degrees Celsius
 

Ewheels

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2019
Threads
56
Messages
1,143
Reaction score
1,248
Location
SoCal
First Name
Eric
Vehicle(s)
2018 GT PP1
Vehicle Showcase
1
e85 in my area is basically like unicorn piss, so its kind of out of question. My car is a Mach1, so already has the GT350 intake, tb, CAI. Also has the increased cooling capabilities like the gt350s including the diff

MY car will be setup for 20-25 minute sessions is what I'm shooting for. What kind additional cooling do you think i'll be into? I'm in southern Ontario, hottest track day might be 30 degrees Celsius
I'll put it this way...S550 guys already put massive oil coolers the size of radiators on these cars to help keep them cool without FI.
I'm thinking you would need to add some 100 octane, maybe 100% duct the radiator and oil cooler (both sides; intake and exit out the hood), maybe some meth injection could help. This is all speculation again, as I don't have experience with this and I don't know anyone personally who does either.

Feras Quartomy has a C6 corvette in Global Time Attack. His car is twin turbo'd (about 1,000 hp) and he has a rear mount radiator in the trunk and said he can only get about two hot laps before heat becomes an issue.


Call up CSF radiators. They make the radiator for the Mustang GT4. They will likely have better info.
 

NightmareMoon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Threads
36
Messages
4,306
Reaction score
2,868
Location
Austin
Vehicle(s)
2016 Mustang GT PP
Vehicle Showcase
1
The few guys I know who are pulling it off FI on the track have done extensive mods for airflow, ducting, vents, and coolers. The Mach 1 is (hopefully) better set up to survive track sessions without overheating at the stock power level. Going FI means you basically have to start over with the engine cooling parts of the package and rebuild a system which can cool your new power/heat generation levels.

I've done it on another (non-mustang) car, it was a huge PITA and I was constantly having to pay attention to cooling and temps which really took some of the fun out of driving the car on track. It was a hoot on the street tho.
 


OP
OP
pappagray

pappagray

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 29, 2021
Threads
11
Messages
174
Reaction score
265
Location
Canada
First Name
Brandon
Vehicle(s)
2021 PP1
I was afraid this was going to be the response lol.

Maybe i should look at headers and tuning, Im not a big fan of how the 5.0 sounds personally, so little leary on adding headers
 

boardkat

CAMtard
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Threads
45
Messages
900
Reaction score
566
Location
Lake Oswego, OR
Vehicle(s)
'15 GT
oh boy :p
my advice: unless you're willing to go deeper than you ever imagined (customizations and financially), don't do it.
i'm in the middle of a move, so not a lot of time for back and forth, but my issues are well documented here and on my racing page.
 

tosha

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
413
Reaction score
282
Location
Canada
Vehicle(s)
Mustang GT PP1
e85 in my area is basically like unicorn piss, so its kind of out of question. My car is a Mach1, so already has the GT350 intake, tb, CAI. Also has the increased cooling capabilities like the gt350s including the diff

MY car will be setup for 20-25 minute sessions is what I'm shooting for. What kind additional cooling do you think i'll be into? I'm in southern Ontario, hottest track day might be 30 degrees Celsius
I will be doing a driving school event at CTMP at the end of October, I've got PP1 GT with roush blower, can share how it behaved overall after that, if you ping me and remind.

I don't plan on pushing the car too hard as I don't chase any lap times, but I'd like to understand the limits of the cooling aspect. Hoping it will be around 15C at max :giggle: .that would be my second time on a track, so if you have more experience, you'd probably push the car much harder.

My first time was at Calabogie at 30-32C heat, the car was still NA and full stock at that point. I can tell you, that I would never take it to a track with FI at such ambients. The CHT was creeping up to the point when I made a decision to back off, when it was hottest temp outside. I cannot imagine FI working ok there without serious cooling add-ons.

I did not intend to track my mustang and it was spec'd to be a long-term grand tourer with crazy power. Now it seems that I need another one for track duty and winter daily beater, 1ss 1le maybe? :crackup: that would have been a nice garage.
 

luc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2018
Threads
13
Messages
1,098
Reaction score
1,053
Location
CA
Vehicle(s)
2017 GT with PP
From my own experience and some friends that heavily track their pp1 Mustang ( Gen2), the engine is pretty fragile and, beside obviously the cooling issues, but the M1 is much better on this point, I would personally not put any more load on the engine
Of course it depend on how much you would be pushing the car on the track
 
OP
OP
pappagray

pappagray

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 29, 2021
Threads
11
Messages
174
Reaction score
265
Location
Canada
First Name
Brandon
Vehicle(s)
2021 PP1
I will be doing a driving school event at CTMP at the end of October, I've got PP1 GT with roush blower, can share how it behaved overall after that, if you ping me and remind.

I don't plan on pushing the car too hard as I don't chase any lap times, but I'd like to understand the limits of the cooling aspect. Hoping it will be around 15C at max :giggle: .that would be my second time on a track, so if you have more experience, you'd probably push the car much harder.

My first time was at Calabogie at 30-32C heat, the car was still NA and full stock at that point. I can tell you, that I would never take it to a track with FI at such ambients. The CHT was creeping up to the point when I made a decision to back off, when it was hottest temp outside. I cannot imagine FI working ok there without serious cooling add-ons.

I did not intend to track my mustang and it was spec'd to be a long-term grand tourer with crazy power. Now it seems that I need another one for track duty and winter daily beater, 1ss 1le maybe? :crackup: that would have been a nice garage.
I traded my suspension modified 2021 PP1 for the MAch 1. That car saw multiple track days at TMP. for point of reference I ran very low 1.20's consistently on 295/35r19 RT660. I could get about 8 laps in before the diff overheating warning would go off. The reason I bought a Mach was for its increased cooling capabilities, superior trans.

Thanks very much for the information guys, I'm really thinking I should probably stay away from FI, I'm not looking to open a can of worms. Im going to look into some further NA mods to gain a little HP and keep everything reliable
 

tosha

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
413
Reaction score
282
Location
Canada
Vehicle(s)
Mustang GT PP1
I traded my suspension modified 2021 PP1 for the MAch 1. That car saw multiple track days at TMP. for point of reference I ran very low 1.20's consistently on 295/35r19 RT660. I could get about 8 laps in before the diff overheating warning would go off. The reason I bought a Mach was for its increased cooling capabilities, superior trans.

Thanks very much for the information guys, I'm really thinking I should probably stay away from FI, I'm not looking to open a can of worms. Im going to look into some further NA mods to gain a little HP and keep everything reliable
Since you plan to track the car regularly, I think it's a right decision. Maybe couple off-topic questions if you don't mind - which dealer got you m1? I gave up searching for it earlier this year, as nobody had any Premiums in stock, let alone handling package. Basic mach1's were priced crazy as well.

Also, how do you like RT660 for hpde sessions? Most reviews say that they are better fit for autocross.
 
OP
OP
pappagray

pappagray

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 29, 2021
Threads
11
Messages
174
Reaction score
265
Location
Canada
First Name
Brandon
Vehicle(s)
2021 PP1
Since you plan to track the car regularly, I think it's a right decision. Maybe couple off-topic questions if you don't mind - which dealer got you m1? I gave up searching for it earlier this year, as nobody had any Premiums in stock, let alone handling package. Basic mach1's were priced crazy as well.

Also, how do you like RT660 for hpde sessions? Most reviews say that they are better fit for autocross.
i got my Mach 1 only about a month ago, after modifying the pp1, and realizing I was on borrowed time with the trans, fighting diff over heat, wanting new struts, and seats, the mach1 made sense.

After a track day I went home, built a Mach to my spec and checked Inventory. Found my car on dealer floor in Oshawa, which they had for like 4 days. Just perfect timing. Traded the GT for what I paid 3 months earlier, and paid Msrp for the Mach. Couldn’t have been a better opportunity.

for me I needed a base car, leather recaros were an absolute no fly for me. Mine is a base, handling pack, recaros, and I think it has Nav.

16739013-943B-4BD0-B6D9-F81E47FE8F13.jpeg
 

Norm Peterson

corner barstool sitter
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Threads
11
Messages
9,011
Reaction score
4,695
Location
On a corner barstool not too far from I-95
First Name
Norm
Vehicle(s)
'08 GT #85, '19 WRX
i got my Mach 1 only about a month ago, after modifying the pp1, and realizing I was on borrowed time with the trans, fighting diff over heat, wanting new struts, and seats, the mach1 made sense.

After a track day I went home, built a Mach to my spec and checked Inventory. Found my car on dealer floor in Oshawa, which they had for like 4 days. Just perfect timing. Traded the GT for what I paid 3 months earlier, and paid Msrp for the Mach. Couldn’t have been a better opportunity.

for me I needed a base car, leather recaros were an absolute no fly for me. Mine is a base, handling pack, recaros, and I think it has Nav.

16739013-943B-4BD0-B6D9-F81E47FE8F13.jpeg
Nice. Understood about the no-leather requirement.


Norm
 

Ewheels

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2019
Threads
56
Messages
1,143
Reaction score
1,248
Location
SoCal
First Name
Eric
Vehicle(s)
2018 GT PP1
Vehicle Showcase
1
i got my Mach 1 only about a month ago, after modifying the pp1, and realizing I was on borrowed time with the trans, fighting diff over heat, wanting new struts, and seats, the mach1 made sense.

After a track day I went home, built a Mach to my spec and checked Inventory. Found my car on dealer floor in Oshawa, which they had for like 4 days. Just perfect timing. Traded the GT for what I paid 3 months earlier, and paid Msrp for the Mach. Couldn’t have been a better opportunity.

for me I needed a base car, leather recaros were an absolute no fly for me. Mine is a base, handling pack, recaros, and I think it has Nav.

16739013-943B-4BD0-B6D9-F81E47FE8F13.jpeg
Man, if only Ford offered an FIA-certified fixed back seat option from factory 🤣
 

 
8 - UPR Products
Top