Supercharger or turbo for 2017 mustang gt ?

[Avispa]

I like em both. The Whipple was great on the Cobra, and the VMP does the job on the '16. The VMP is quiet, as best I can tell with loud exhaust, while the Whipple screams under heavy throttle.

I'd be confident Whipple has a good conversion kit for a coyote, but the Cobra only needed a head unit and throttle body. No drilling needed. Converting a NA coyote needs a lower intake, heat exchanger, pump, front radiator and idler assembly. VMP's kit seems well designed and installs clean.

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[YellowWhipple]

I'd consider what your willing to spend to put the power to the ground and go from there. The tq delivery can cost you a decent amount just to use what you've got. Search the threads for guys that are a year or 2 in. Most seem to eventually grumble about not being able to use or flat foot their low gears and the ongoing cost of good tires.
Highway queens are fun but can get old risking the speeds needed to run it out or finding clear roads. (Major metro area use)

This is BY FAR, the most important point in this thread. I would ask you two questions:

1) Do you care about acceleration at illegal speeds?
2) Do you care about controlling grip by feathering the throttle?

I have had a whipple stage 2 on my S550 for about two years now. The *ONLY* tire that can hold a roll on at full throttle in second gear is a MT ET Street S/S at a 305 width. What is common is that when you hit your powerband at 4k rpm, you lose traction in second. Up to 70-80 mph IT DOES NOT MATTER what kind of power adder you have from a epeen perspective. ALL are absurd. If you never accelerate at WOT at wildly illegal speeds, a lot of the argument for a turbo is moot.

I have owned and driven high-ish horsepower turbo cars. The best of them are *extremely* difficult to control traction by modulating the throttle. If you back off too much, you spill off too much boost. Back off too little, you spin tires. Traction control activates, you lose all your boost. If you dial back boost per gear (which takes more hardware & more complexity), you find that not all roads are the same and you unsatisfying-ly leave performance on the table because you don't run as much boost as you can or you are back to the same problem again because a boost level that works on one street it not the same boost level that is ideal for another street. Only your foot can correct for this with practice and big turbo cars don't let you control this well that way. Trust me, accelerating to 60-80 in a high HP turbo car quickly is *WORK*. You may personally find that work fun, and that's fine, but honestly, it is MUCH harder than it needs to be.

Up into third gear, it's a lot easier to put 1000hp down to the ground, so there is a legitimate, real use case where a turbo surpasses a supercharger there. So, yes, at the track, I can see an argument there. If you drive stupidly fast on the street, fine, but if you do that often enough to make it worth it, IMO, you aren't long for having a valid license.

So, how do you drive your car, honestly? If you answered that question truthfully, for a street car, I think most people would pick a supercharger for a S550 if they spend any extended period of time with both.

 

[crewdawg16]

This is BY FAR, the most important point in this thread. I would ask you two questions:

1) Do you care about acceleration at illegal speeds?
2) Do you care about controlling grip by feathering the throttle?

I have had a whipple stage 2 on my S550 for about two years now. The *ONLY* tire that can hold a roll on at full throttle in second gear is a MT ET Street S/S at a 305 width. What is common is that when you hit your powerband at 4k rpm, you lose traction in second. Up to 70-80 mph IT DOES NOT MATTER what kind of power adder you have from a epeen perspective. ALL are absurd. If you never accelerate at WOT at wildly illegal speeds, a lot of the argument for a turbo is moot.

I have owned and driven high-ish horsepower turbo cars. The best of them are *extremely* difficult to control traction by modulating the throttle. If you back off too much, you spill off too much boost. Back off too little, you spin tires. Traction control activates, you lose all your boost. If you dial back boost per gear (which takes more hardware & more complexity), you find that not all roads are the same and you unsatisfying-ly leave performance on the table because you don't run as much boost as you can or you are back to the same problem again because a boost level that works on one street it not the same boost level that is ideal for another street. Only your foot can correct for this with practice and big turbo cars don't let you control this well that way. Trust me, accelerating to 60-80 in a high HP turbo car quickly is *WORK*. You may personally find that work fun, and that's fine, but honestly, it is MUCH harder than it needs to be.

Up into third gear, it's a lot easier to put 1000hp down to the ground, so there is a legitimate, real use case where a turbo surpasses a supercharger there. So, yes, at the track, I can see an argument there. If you drive stupidly fast on the street, fine, but if you do that often enough to make it worth it, IMO, you aren't long for having a valid license.

So, how do you drive your car, honestly? If you answered that question truthfully, for a street car, I think most people would pick a supercharger for a S550 if they spend any extended period of time with both.

You have perfectly summed up my choice of the Edelbrock over a turbo setup. I would add the reliability factor on top of all of this as well. You are much more likely to have leaks or other issues with a turbo setup due to the complexity and number of connections for all of the plumbing when compared to how simple a PD setup is.

 

[HELLION TURBO]

You have perfectly summed up my choice of the Edelbrock over a turbo setup. I would add the reliability factor on top of all of this as well. You are much more likely to have leaks or other issues with a turbo setup due to the complexity and number of connections for all of the plumbing when compared to how simple a PD setup is.

Hello.

We can understand questioning the reliability of any setup, but if our turbo systems are being considered it is important to note that reliability is not a concern. Our hose connections are all done with multi-ply silicone and T-bolt clamps. Properly installed, they can hold over 40 psi without an issue.

We are also often told by dealers and customers that our setup is as easy or easier to install than some superchargers. We do not want anyone to shy away over install complication or fear of reliability. All aftermarket products can have setbacks, but we work daily to insure ease of installation and reliably.

Team Hellion

 

[crewdawg16]

Hello.

We can understand questioning the reliability of any setup, but if our turbo systems are being considered it is important to note that reliability is not a concern. Our hose connections are all done with multi-ply silicone and T-bolt clamps. Properly installed, they can hold over 40 psi without an issue.

We are also often told by dealers and customers that our setup is as easy or easier to install than some superchargers. We do not want anyone to shy away over install complication or fear of reliability. All aftermarket products can have setbacks, but we work daily to insure ease of installation and reliably.

Team Hellion

Apologies if my post insinuated at all that your kits are not reliable, that was not my intention. Hellion makes a great kit and have amazing results on these cars. The comment about leaks and such is more along the lines of proper installation and not the quality of the components.

 

[YellowWhipple]

Apologies if my post insinuated at all that your kits are not reliable, that was not my intention. Hellion makes a great kit and have amazing results on these cars. The comment about leaks and such is more along the lines of proper installation and not the quality of the components.

Agree with this. The discussion in this thread about non-denominational street manners of a turbo vs supercharger is a far more interesting discussion than the particulars of any one implementation flavor.

 

[beefcake]

its hard to go wrong with a power adder on a coyote, really comes down to power goals, budget, driving style and for some looks

your always welcome to give me a ring and we can go over all of the above

Terry "Beefcake" Reeves
Office - 855-TBR-RACE - Cell 513-478-1965
Owner Team Beefcake - 20+ Years Experience
Deal Directly with the boss, no pushy sales guys!!!!!!!
https://www.beefcakeracing.com - Your Forced Induction Specialists

 

[Veteran]

I have a few questions ,
Knock seems to be limiting factor when on 91/93 gas. Does a turbo or a supercharger have the advantage with knock/detonation per psi ?
Another factor that I am considering ;
We know a supercharger eats up a lot more power than a turbo. So I would guess a turbo will effectively put down better performance at a lower boost compared to a supercharger ? Thereby better safety margins ?
I suppose if cost and built engines and fuel were no issues, either will produce.

 

[crcpdx]

I have a few questions ,
Knock seems to be limiting factor when on 91/93 gas. Does a turbo or a supercharger have the advantage with knock/detonation per psi ?
Another factor that I am considering ;
We know a supercharger eats up a lot more power than a turbo. So I would guess a turbo will effectively put down better performance at a lower boost compared to a supercharger ? Thereby better safety margins ?
I suppose if cost and built engines and fuel were no issues, either will produce.

Not sure what you mean. Yes turbo will make more power per psi. As far as putting power down? Do you mean getting tires to hold or actually putting power to the wheels. PD blowers are better at putting power to the wheels sooner. Turbos have come along way to eliminate lag, but just looking at how the system makes power, exhaust, means it will always take longer to make power at the hit, or low rpms.

 

[beefcake]

I have a few questions ,
Knock seems to be limiting factor when on 91/93 gas. Does a turbo or a supercharger have the advantage with knock/detonation per psi ?
Another factor that I am considering ;
We know a supercharger eats up a lot more power than a turbo. So I would guess a turbo will effectively put down better performance at a lower boost compared to a supercharger ? Thereby better safety margins ?
I suppose if cost and built engines and fuel were no issues, either will produce.

knock is knock, doesn't matter the power adder, the difference with a turbo is that it doesn't use engine power to turn the turbos, so in general, you can make a few more ponies with the turbo ot the tires.

 

[Veteran]

knock is knock, doesn't matter the power adder, the difference with a turbo is that it doesn't use engine power to turn the turbos, so in general, you can make a few more ponies with the turbo ot the tires.

Thanks..that’s what I wanted to know. I thought perhaps that as a SC boosts at lower rpm it might be more susceptible to knock , especially at low rpm. But I get you. Rev it and knock is knock.

 

[Veteran]

Not sure what you mean. Yes turbo will make more power per psi. As far as putting power down? Do you mean getting tires to hold or actually putting power to the wheels. PD blowers are better at putting power to the wheels sooner. Turbos have come along way to eliminate lag, but just looking at how the system makes power, exhaust, means it will always take longer to make power at the hit, or low rpms.

Yes as you said, a turbo will make same power to wheels at lower psi..
So say you are boosting 12psi with both turbo and supercharger, wouldn’t a turbo car be faster at all rpms due to it putting more to the wheels at equivalent psi ?

 

[crcpdx]

Yes as you said, a turbo will make same power to wheels at lower psi..
So say you are boosting 12psi with both turbo and supercharger, wouldn’t a turbo car be faster at all rpms due to it putting more to the wheels at equivalent psi ?

No just making up numbers but let's say PD blower makes 700hp at 10psi and a twin turbo makes 750 at 10psi. Well at 2500 rpm the blower might make 550 hp while the turbo makes 500hp.

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