Suddenly stalling on warm/hot starts

Cobra Jet

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Do you have any stored codes at all?

 
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pmor4243

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So a quick update. After going through and replacing several parts and going through a process of elimination I think I have narrowed the stalling issue down to my methanol injection system.

I currently have the check valve for the system about 6-8" away from the nozzle, so my thought is that after the car gets hot and I have gotten into boost a bit, the remaining methanol in the line after the check valve is in some part, making its way into the intake. Im thinking it is either pooling up just a bit and/or gassing off a bit which is creating a temporary rich condition when starting the car.

Im not 100% sure of this but it would seem to make sense as to why the car only stalls once and only after getting hot and getting into boost a bit. Once it turns over and stalls, it has more or less cleared things out and then fires up like normal.

What Im not sure of is how to correct this. My first plan is mount the nozzle directly to the check valve to minimize the amount of remaining methanol that has the possibility of making its way into the intake. I also currently have the nozzle mounted on the top of the intake elbow, maybe moving it more to the bottom of the intake tube so it has less help from gravity would be a good option as well.

If anyone has any thoughts on the subject I would love some ideas.
 

Chris Barnes

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I had the exact same issue. Same setup, literally. Mine was a 2018 GT, P1X with dual nozzle Alky kit. It would pop, stumble and sometimes stall on hot starts only. Cold starts were perfect. I ended up putting a solenoid just before the T fitting to the nozzles and solved it. Sorry I just now saw this post. I could have saved you some time, money and headaches.
 
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pmor4243

pmor4243

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@Chris Barnes you seemed to have nailed it! Moved the solenoid up to the T before the nozzles and it seems like things are back to normal.

I'm just amazed that the check valves I had placed in line of the nozzles didn't do the trick, which is why it took me so long to narrow it down to the meth injection.

Appreciate the help man! I was starting to get a little discouraged.
 


Chris Barnes

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Glad it worked out. I read your post and felt terrible I didn't see it sooner. I went through hell trying to figure it out too!
 
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pmor4243

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Looks like I was premature with thinking things were fixed.

Still getting stalls on hot starts. I have actually hooked the solenoid up directly to the nozzle to reduce any additional methanol/water from getting into the intake and it seems like anything above a 6gph nozzle results in stalling.

Problem is I have figured out I need dual nozzles at around 30gph to see the knock resistance I need when the temps are high here.

So the only thing I can think of is that it is just pooling up somewhere in the intake or creating gas vapor that is causing a rich condition on first start. It’s just weird because I have read plenty of posts of people having no issues like with similar amounts of water/meth injection.

Can’t decide if I want to keep fighting it or just go back to using boostane.
 

Chris Barnes

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Try removing the meth nozzles completely from the system and test again. Lund told me originally that the issue was timing the ECU commands on startup on the 18+ cars can be an issue. He said their whipple black 2018 does the same thing but I never really believed them. They sent me several revisions that helped but never completely fixed the issue . It wasn't until I installed the solenoid that it completely went away.
One last thing I did was ditch the MAF in the intercooler and installed the GT350 charge tube with the MAF just before the TB. This was a huge pain because I had to move my nozzles just after the MAF and before the rubber elbow to the TB. Sorry I didn't mention this earlier, I didn't notice you had the old charge pipe until just now.
 

tdstuart

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How is your fuel correction when warm?

My car wouldn't start when it was warm due to the fuel correction being so bad.

I think you are right that the meth injection system is throwing off the car by making it lean/rich during startups.

Try unplugging your MAF next time it does this. It allowed my car to start, and drive.
 
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pmor4243

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@Chris Barnes Thanks for the info, I may need to look into the GT350 charge pipe. I really wish I would have gotten that to begin with. To your first point, if I remove the nozzles from the system, or just deactivate the system, the starting issues completely go away, so I am 99% sure it is tied to the meth injection.

I slowly stepped up in nozzles from a 6GPH all the way to duals at 30GPH total and that is what it took to provide adequate knock suppression. Short term fuel trims showed a reduction of 2-3% so it was just barley starting to affect fueling. Point of all this is that everything seems to work fine but apparently the volume needed to actually do anything useful is causing some residual fuel either in the lines or the intake somewhere to stall out the motor. It seemed like anything after the 6gph nozzle cause the car to stall out when warm.

Wengerd did send a couple of revisions but unfortunately none of them seemed to have an impact.

@tdstuart With the methanol turned on, I will typically see my fuel trims in the negatives when starting up but they tend to swing. I will say they trend more negative when running methanol vs when I have tested with the system off. I have noticed however, that regardless of the methanol, at light throttle inputs, the corrections have been really high - like pulling 12-20% depending on the throttle position, but once I get on the throttle a bit more, the corrections are typically within 5%. So I have wondered if that is an indicator that would contribute to the stalling Im getting.

Maybe I need to see if Wengerd could adjust the fueling a bit at that lower level to see if that corrects the rich condition.
 

Zrussian13

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Make sure your nozzles and fittings are solid and not leaking. I was running a 10gph nozzle with no issues. I added a second 4gph nozzle and started having the same issue as you. I tested everything and couldn't find a leak but if I looked at my engine right after making a few hard runs I would find some red stains on the cylinder head around my meth system. It wasn't leaking unless I was hitting full boost. I couldnt pressurize the system enough to recreate the leak without the engine running at least 7lbs of boost so I don't know which fitting in the dual nozzle set up was the issue. I pulled it off and went back to the single 10gph nozzle and no issues. All the fittings and lines look good so my guess is one of the nozzles got bumped and turned a little breaking the seal with the E6000 silicone and that's what was causing it but I'm really only speculating.
 
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pmor4243

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Make sure your nozzles and fittings are solid and not leaking. I was running a 10gph nozzle with no issues. I added a second 4gph nozzle and started having the same issue as you. I tested everything and couldn't find a leak but if I looked at my engine right after making a few hard runs I would find some red stains on the cylinder head around my meth system. It wasn't leaking unless I was hitting full boost. I couldnt pressurize the system enough to recreate the leak without the engine running at least 7lbs of boost so I don't know which fitting in the dual nozzle set up was the issue. I pulled it off and went back to the single 10gph nozzle and no issues. All the fittings and lines look good so my guess is one of the nozzles got bumped and turned a little breaking the seal with the E6000 silicone and that's what was causing it but I'm really only speculating.
Interesting to hear, thanks for adding that. And that is more or less what I am running into. If I drive around and don't get into boost, I don't have any issues. But if I get the car into boost and the meth system activates, then I run into issues.

I've taken them all on and off so many times now that I feel like at least one of the times I would have gotten lucky with a perfect seal haha. Definitely worth another check though.
 

Zrussian13

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Interesting to hear, thanks for adding that. And that is more or less what I am running into. If I drive around and don't get into boost, I don't have any issues. But if I get the car into boost and the meth system activates, then I run into issues.

I've taken them all on and off so many times now that I feel like at least one of the times I would have gotten lucky with a perfect seal haha. Definitely worth another check though.
Are you using anything on the threaded connections? My snow kit came with this...
It takes a while to dry though so I found it best to install all the threaded connections with this and let it sit over night before hooking everything else up.

e6000-craft-1_0oz-cardedtube-US-300dpi.jpg
 
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pmor4243

pmor4243

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Are you using anything on the threaded connections? My snow kit came with this...
It takes a while to dry though so I found it best to install all the threaded connections with this and let it sit over night before hooking everything else up.
Yep, I have become too familiar with that stuff. But good call on the dry time, I may need to try giving it a bit more time. Its been so hot here lately that it seems to dry within 30 minutes, but it probably takes a bit longer than that for full cure.
 

Zrussian13

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Yep, I have become too familiar with that stuff. But good call on the dry time, I may need to try giving it a bit more time. Its been so hot here lately that it seems to dry within 30 minutes, but it probably takes a bit longer than that for full cure.
Yeah it's been crazy hot here lately too. When I re-did my set up I noticed it was pretty dry with in the hour but I let it sit over night anyway and by morning it's rock solid unless you break the bond free. One of these days I'll probably try to go to dual nozzles again and see if that was my issue. I run so much boostane the meth really isn't needed on my set up for anything more than cooling though so I may just call it good enough.
 

 
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