Strategies to keep cats from melting

[Torinate]

Well, wasn’t the topic I was hoping to post, but here is where we are at.

I’ve been in the boat looking for a cat delete to ward off failure causing engine problems. However, with all the recent stuff going on, looks like I may be stuck with them. Good and bad though I guess...

What I’m hoping for in this thread is good information that may help us prolong the life of our cats and keep from catastrophic failure.

I’m not wanting the “just have a shop remove them” posts lol.

Certainly there are ways that would help prolong the lifespan. I’m also sure there are ways to make them fail faster.

What can we do help them live and what shouldn’t we do to make them fail faster.

Any ideas? What do the ZL1 and Demons do?

Does Seafoam help?

Are other brands of cats work better? Gesi?

Would running a meth injection system help as it brings temps down a bit?

Seriously, if this is the way of the future, then let’s help each other figure out ways to make it work!

If I have to conform, I still want my cake!

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[Superman112]

Could we use the cats that are on the GT500s???

 

[Torinate]

Could we use the cats that are on the GT500s???

No idea. Are they the same or different? Anyone know for sure?

 

[Superman112]

No idea. Are they the same or different? Anyone know for sure?

Yeah no clue but I’m assuming since they come factory they “should” be a good option for anyone going FI. If Ford was smart they would start to sell those cats.

 

[sk47]

Hello; I am going to follow this thread to see if I can learn anything new. I get that there is a crackdown going on. That companies which have been selling "Off Road Only" products are moving away from those products. Most likely to avoid big fines as the enforcement arms are likely under new management.
I am going to make a few unsupported guesses so bear such in mind. The catalytic converters(cats)have one main function which is to burn any excess fuel that manages to escape the combustion chambers. The cats are in effect a stove lined with some materials which will cause the excess fuel to be burned in them at high enough temperatures to prevent some the the more bad pollutants from forming. At lower, more normal, exhaust temperatures the excess fuel will become some of the worst and most damaging pollutants. So the cats prevent some types of bad pollutants.
The things which can damage the cats include running too rich a fuel mixture. The more fuel which makes it's way into the cats the hotter the cats will become. They can and do get hot enough to melt down. I have seen this in a Toyota Pickup four cylinder truck. The fellow did not change his O2 sensors when needed. Melted the cat and caused enough back pressure so that the exhaust temps stayed trapped. Did damage to the heads and exhaust valves. Not sure if the engine could have been rebuilt as the guy replaced it with a junkyard engine which he trashed right away in a different manner. A non related story.

I do not know the exact nature of the tunes you can get to make maximum power. If they do make the fuel mix more rich then with a cat in place it could be like over fireing a stove. I do not know if you can get cats capable of dealing with the heat. This is something I hope to learn.
One guess is to get a tune which keeps the fuel mix as close to the ideal as possible, but not too rich.
Good luck in your search.

 

[CJJon]

The cats get too hot and the metal catalyst inside them melts together and they plug up. Sooooo.....no long hard pulls, no back to back hard pulls, no hard pulls when super hot outside, etc., etc.

 

[J17GT]

The things which can damage the cats include running too rich a fuel mixture. The more fuel which makes it's way into the cats the hotter the cats will become.

Actually it's the opposite. For example, the Whipple calibration has 'cat protection' enabled. It will richen the fuel mixture one full point to cool the cats. That being said, the calibration does not know the exact temp of the cats, it monitors other parameters and basis it off of that. (from my understanding). Here is a snip from the Whipple install manual:

 

[Torinate]

What does the stock “cat over temp” tuning do?

I have the nGauge and there a cat temp PID. Is that accurate at all? What is too hot?

Really hoping some of the really
Smart people in the board chime.

Any signs and symptoms for a cat going bad?

If I have to live with them, I’d like to try to make it as easy as I can for them...

 

[J17GT]

What does the stock “cat over temp” tuning do?

I have the nGauge and there a cat temp PID. Is that accurate at all? What is too hot?

Really hoping some of the really
Smart people in the board chime.

Any signs and symptoms for a cat going bad?

If I have to live with them, I’d like to try to make it as easy as I can for them...

Honestly, this is not rocket science stuff. Power adders are big air pumps that generate heat. More heat and more air going in, more heat and more air going out.

As @CJJon mentions, long pulls on a hot day or back to back, things get hot. I would not do a half mile or mile race event with a blower and stock cats for example. I bet highway roll race guys will have more issues with cats than the guy who does short blasts on the street.

I'm a bit of a drag racer, so really hoping by the time things start getting hot, I'm done with my pass and things can cool down. Although with that said, I would not expect the stock cats on a boosted car to last as long as they would on a stock setup. I'm just crossing my fingers they will last a good amount of time...

To your question about what are the symptoms of a cat failure - possibly a check engine light, bad smelling exhaust, poor performance if it plugs up and the engine can't get the exhaust gasses out. Best to pay attention as you can damage your engine.

These are the risks we run to go fast! You just have to be comfortable accepting it.

 

[sk47]

Actually it's the opposite. For example, the Whipple calibration has 'cat protection' enabled. It will richen the fuel mixture one full point to cool the cats. That being said, the calibration does not know the exact temp of the cats, it monitors other parameters and basis it off of that. (from my understanding). Here is a snip from the Whipple install manual:

Hello; This is of interest. I know in the distant past a slightly rich mixture could be used to keep engine temps down. There is an old story of how Charles Lindberg helped the military increase the range of some planes. He had great experience and showed them how to run the engines more lean to increase range, but not so lean so as to overheat the air cooled engines.

I read thru the highlighted part a few times and remain a bit confused. They are talking WOT conditions. The second sentence about Catalytic saver mode does say the air fuel is richened to maintain cat life. However the last sentence seems to contradict, saying air fuel may lower up to one full point to maintain temps. I get that computer controls can cycle at nanosecond intervals and I may be overthinking this.

I would want to know more as running rich would seem fine for keeping internal engine temps down, but not for keeping cat temps down. Likely my lack of understanding at this point. Thanks for the post even if it confused me.

 

[CJJon]

Oh, also...don't shut the car off for cooldown. Let it idle that will help lower the temps. If you shut down a red hot cat, the carryover heat may well take it just over the edge.

 

[lucasmelobr]

Well, wasn’t the topic I was hoping to post, but here is where we are at.

I’ve been in the boat looking for a cat delete to ward off failure causing engine problems. However, with all the recent stuff going on, looks like I may be stuck with them. Good and bad though I guess...

What I’m hoping for in this thread is good information that may help us prolong the life of our cats and keep from catastrophic failure.

I’m not wanting the “just have a shop remove them” posts lol.

Certainly there are ways that would help prolong the lifespan. I’m also sure there are ways to make them fail faster.

What can we do help them live and what shouldn’t we do to make them fail faster.

Any ideas? What do the ZL1 and Demons do?

Does Seafoam help?

Are other brands of cats work better? Gesi?

Would running a meth injection system help as it brings temps down a bit?

Seriously, if this is the way of the future, then let’s help each other figure out ways to make it work!

If I have to conform, I still want my cake!

Following...

 

[Meatball]

Oh, also...don't shut the car off for cooldown. Let it idle that will help lower the temps. If you shut down a red hot cat, the carryover heat may well take it just over the edge.

I got the same advice from Procharger Tech; not to shut down after a dyno pull, because oxygen in the air can get at the cats from the tailpipe and react w them. Might be related to the strategy of enriching the mixture presumably to consume all the avail oxygen in the cylinders so it doesn’t get to the cats

 

[engineermike]

I think max power is in the lambda .83-.85 range. One option is to run it closer to .78-.8 to keep egt down until cat protect comes in. I think cat protect is somewhere around 0.72 lambda.

I’ve been told that there are no better cats than HJS for high temp but I can’t verify. I’d be more interested in converting to gt500 cats. Should be very easy to convert.

 

[andrewtac]

Does E85 do better?

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