Still happy you bought a 10 sp auto?

[Mghoward74]

Can a 10R80 handle high horsepower without having issues? I'm just curious. Anyone making over 850-900 rwhp with 10R80.

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[4leghorse]

I’ve had my 10speed pp1 since the end of 18

Stock tune: don’t really have any pros for it tbh had a really bad 4-5 shift went through too many gears for normal driving. Downshifts sucked. Had to have Ford reflash it. The 4-5 felt like I got rear ended

Lund 93 Roush Cai Headers: The lund tune really changed things the car drives smoother shifts better. Downshifts feel more necessary and crisp. Accelerating is really fun car pulls. Doesn’t search for gears like stock tune. Driving around town it’s usually in 7th or 8th.

I never knew how to drive stick but I watched a lot of YouTube videos on it. I’d definitely would get another GT to drive a manual. If I had my knowledge about cars I do now I probably would’ve gotten a stick but there weren’t any Royal Crimson pp1 packages in my area except mine and I wanted the color

 

[Norm Peterson]

Its fantastic! A little quirky sometimes but man I love the 2 X 4 slam to the back of the head when it shifts.

I've driven a few automatics that made certain shifts somewhat harshly most of the time, and one (that I was being paid to drive for a dealership) that would shift very harshly a few days at a time before smoothing out somewhat. Hated that kind of behavior - your level and those levels of shift harshness would be deal-breaker-bad all by themselves even if I was otherwise OK with buying a car with an AT. I never cared for rides in cars with shift kits back in the days of A3 transmissions either.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

I am a manual guy. I wonder how many manual guys can associate their opinions of the A10 having to do with anticipation of a shift?

I'm sure that's part of it. You know when you'd do your own shifting, but since you're not hard-wired to the transmission control module (or plumbed into the hydraulic logic of ATs past) you're never going to be quite sure when the shift is going to happen.

I think related to this is that 'shift time' and 'shift lag' never appear to be an issue with a MT because you're doing all of the work. As opposed to waiting for your shift command to be processed and approved as in the case for manually-commanded AT shifts.

For this reason, I do not think a diehard manual guy will really like any automatic that isn't at least as smooth as they are in a manual.

To me, it's always felt like an AT car wasn't quite in step with what I was asking it to do. Like I was endlessly arguing with it.

I can see where that probably wouldn't bother many or even most drivers. Dunno, maybe that uncertainty of when the shift actually hits is part of the appeal for some.

Going fast is fun but I am not so caring about 0.2-0.5 seconds faster. If I was, I might buy another car or modify this one just for speed. Of course, there is always someone faster.

This ^^^

At this point I'd rather keep trying to make me better - or at least keep from letting my driving lose a step - than worry about 'faster'.


Norm

 

[Stangomydreams]

Driven 2 10sp GTs and enjoyed both. Owned manual sports cars in the past including mustang v8 and no desire for another. Happy with coyote 10 sp combo.

 

[Norm Peterson]

In the pursuit of manual nirvana wouldn't a mere 6 gears be unsatisfying? I mean if shifting is the allure then more shifting must be even better no?

There's a practical limit to the number of forward gears for a conventional 3-pedal MT. Too many would make for too many odd-to-even (fore-aft) shifter gates, never mind that you could end up being busier than necessary. The middle gears of the 10R80/10L90 are only spaced about 20% apart, where MTs start getting into the close-ratio domain up in the low-to-mid 30% range.

I've plotted a 10R80 speeds in gears chart up somewhere, and if you're shifting at, say, 3500 rpm in your street driving your road speeds would look something like 15, 25, 34, 42, 49, 58, and 74 for the first 7 of 9 possible upshifts. Doing that with a MT . . . just say no.

Six speeds really does seems to be the sweet spot for a conventional MT, with an outside shot for 7 as in the C7 Corvettes for cars having that much speed potential.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Have you driven a C7 with the 7-speed? Damn thing has three overdrive gears. From a performance standpoint it's functionally still a 4-speed with an OD gear, and another...and another.

Once you've driven cars where none of the gears is a 1.00:1 direct drive, the number of overdriven gears is irrelevant.

Four speeds was enough for the top speeds of the 1960s, but even then four was a compromise between 1st gear being low enough, having an axle ratio tall enough for cruising and the typical top speeds of the day, and not having gears spaced so far apart that you're constantly falling out of the sweet part of the powerband. Today's cars that are capable of 50 or more mph have legitimate need for more gears (AT or MT).


Norm

 

[brucelinc]

If your 10A is operating properly with the right amount of fluid and the up-to-date calibration, few if the complaints of roughness, hunting or jerkiness are valid.

Normal mode skips 2nd and 4th under moderate throttle and is smooth as silk both upshifting and downshifting. No hunting.

Sport and track are much firmer and will feel more aggressive. They keep the rpm higher and do jump to the gear for maximum performance. They will hang on to the lower gears much longer. They have rev matching downshifts.

Drag mode is brutally firm...neck snapping, tire chirping firm. Also has rev matching downshifts. I don't know why anyone would use it for daily driving but it is the cat's meow for max acceleration.

In my opinion, those without the modes are missing some of the benefit of the 10A.

 

[Fly2High]

If your 10A is operating properly with the right amount of fluid and the up-to-date calibration, few if the complaints of roughness, hunting or jerkiness are valid.

Normal mode skips 2nd and 4th under moderate throttle and is smooth as silk both upshifting and downshifting. No hunting.

Sport and track are much firmer and will feel more aggressive. They keep the rpm higher and do jump to the gear for maximum performance. They will hang on to the lower gears much longer. They have rev matching downshifts.

Drag mode is brutally firm...neck snapping, tire chirping firm. Also has rev matching downshifts. I don't know why anyone would use it for daily driving but it is the cat's meow for max acceleration.

In my opinion, those without the modes are missing some of the benefit of the 10A.

How long has the latest code been out?

I wonder how much the A10 driving experience has to do with where you drive and how you drive than software?

 

[Norm Peterson]

Not sure how this applies to the C7. 4th gear is a 1:1. It has three OD's after that.

Doesn't matter - there isn't anything 'sacred' about having either top gear or next to top gear being 1:1. At best, direct drive in top is a hold-over from the days of A3, M3, and M4. Think A4 and M5 for next-to-top gear being direct.

It's all dependent on axle ratio and tire revs/mile, anyway, so it's really a waste of time and energy to tie yourself to the notion that transmissions (of any type) can't have more than one overdrive gear. I have a database that currently sits at about a hundred different transmission gearsets. Here's a few (sorry if the columns don't line up).

10R80

Mustang A10

4.69

2.98

2.14

1.76

1.52

1.27

1.00

0.85

0.68

0.63

1987Max

1987 Maxima

3.29

1.85

1.21

0.91

0.74

MT82	MT82	3.66	2.43	1.69	1.32	1.00	0.65
MT82D4	MT82-D4 (2018 Mustang)	3.24	2.10	1.42	1.00	0.81	0.62

6L80	GM 6L80/6L90	4.03	2.36	1.53	1.15	0.85	0.67
6R60	Ford 6R60/6R80	4.17	2.34	1.52	1.14	0.87	0.69

MXLc	Magnum XL close Ford Mod aftermarket	2.66	1.78	1.30	1.00	0.80	0.63
MXLw	Magnum XL wide Ford Mod aftermarket	2.97	2.10	1.46	1.00	0.74	0.50

8L90

GM 8L90

4.56

2.97

2.08

1.69

1.27

1.00

0.85

0.65

WRX2018

WRX 2015-up

3.45

1.95

1.30

0.97

0.78

0.67

And on edit, I'm pretty sure that the Porsche 928 5M had no overdrive gear ratios at all, 1:1 being in 5th (there was a specific reason for this decision).


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

I'd have been in 5th with my TR3650 once a lap on every track I've run on, except that 5th in the 3650 is so far away from 4th that nothing is gained. Kind of like 6th in the original MT82 depending on your track/axle gearing/tire size/rev limit.

And that's just for the track side of the gearing equation. For a dual-purpose car you'll at least want to consider overall gearing in 1st and have reason enough to want a top gear that's taller than what you'd use on the track simply for relaxed highway cruising . . . like that part of the drive that gets you to the track and back home again. I don't live all that far from your new place, but I've driven at Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course a couple of times (it's an all-day drive from here).

I had been seriously considering the close-ratio Magnum XL, tallish 1st gear and all, to cover that range of conditions.

As far as street driving goes, I use all 6 gears in the WRX (and on the LGT before it) just in normal daily driving (as long as there's any Interstate-speed driving involved. Hell, I'll use all of the lower 5 just getting to the nearest Lowes or the grocery store (about 4 miles away), and two of those 5 are nominally "overdrives".


Long story short - learn to look at the overall gearing and where that puts engine rpms at the speeds you tend to drive at, not at whether the transmission gearset ratios are numerically bigger or smaller than 1.00.

Or think of it this way - just do what the 10R80's TCU does for you and don't worry about how many overdrives there are. I'm sure the TCU never worries about whether the gear it wants you to use is an overdrive gear or not.


Norm

 

[TicTocTach]

I guess from an OEM perspective, the OD gears - and the top OD at that - is where mileage calculations live and die. If they do as much work as Norm and map out TQ/HP curves for particular engine & drive gear combos, you could also maximize how well any given combo would perform. That's something I need to do with my EBPP to monitor where the TCM shifts vs. where those points fall on the power curve. The EB has a pretty fat torque curve, so it's probably not as sensitive to specific RPM's as the Coyote is.

I love the old-school M5's with direct final drive like the Doug Nash 5's. As long as you're not making so much torque that you're nuking the lower gears, a setup like that would be great for having a decent top end while keeping driveshaft speeds in check. I suspect that's a bit part of Ford's decision to go with a 2-piece DS in the S550.

 

[Norm Peterson]

That's my issue with that transmission. Not that it HAS OD gearing, it's that there's an unnecessary amount. There was no point to the 7th gear over the TR6060 for anything other than emissions and fuel economy. Add in the weird GM gear lockout, and it's just not something I would enjoy driving.

Done up right - where you're actually using all 6/7/8/10 gears over the total range of your driving - it doesn't matter where any of the individual gear ratio numbers actually fall relative to 1.00. It's just up to either you or the TCU to pick an appropriate gear without worrying about what the number of that gear might be, or what its numerical ratio might be, or how many more gears you've got left above it.

It used to be that "overdrives" were strictly intended as cruising gears. That was then. Today, that's not necessarily the only intention, and the number of overdriven gears (or percentage of the total) isn't what it used to be.

10 is definitely many to row, and I'd argue 7 is as well. Hell, track mode in most autos will straight lock out the top gear.

Like I said before, 7 is marginal and hard to justify until you're looking at 180+ mph capability. In that case, 7 ends up being the consequence of keeping a low enough 1st gear and performance-oriented (read, close) gear spacing between the rest to keep you in the best part of the powerband.


Norm

 

[Cobra Jet]

I'm going to include this PDF for the 10R80 discussion as well, which may help some folks to understand the 10R80 shift logic.

From: Gears Magazine
Subject: The More You Know About The 10R80… The Better Off You Are!
Date of article: September 1, 2020

 

[Robottrainer]

After a couple years with the A10, I have noticed it sometimes shifts slower in manual mode than the Porsche PDK. But, it's still faster than a manual transmission by a lot. I like the variety of modes. It keeps things interesting.

I believe those high end cars use a dual clutch system which will always shift faster than a torque converter/planetary style trans. The A10 however shifts way faster and harder than those old school style 3, 4 and 6 speeds.

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