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Starting on my suspension looking for insights

OP
OP

eXodium

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Last question. If I replace the shocks/struts can I reuse the bolts or is there a kit for this?
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Bluemustang

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And a few things you don't need: rear swaybar, toe links, and rear springs that are too soft.

Setting up a car well is a systematic approach.
Indeed it is. There are plenty of opinions but not all are equally valid.

When you want your suspension to actually perform, not just for bragging right like I have the thickest sway bar, you need to approach it as a system.
 

Bluemustang

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As far as CB005 and CB762 - what makes them better than the steeda stop the hop kits?

The reason I am still leaning towards a full suspension kit is from reading all of your responses - it comes with all of the parts for much cheaper than buying each of these parts individually. The ford racing kit comes with literally everything. Unless I am missing something this seems like the most cost effective way to upgrade.

Springs I have been looking at are the ford performance ones or the progressive sport ones from Steeda as they include a full kit as well. My goal is for street driving, and possibly the occasional track day for fun.

Norm - you're the first person to recommend not lowering the springs that I've seen. Why so? As for the oversteer situation, I want to be able to take turns faster without spinning out. If you are saying that is an acceleration problem with my foot I'll look there first thank you. In the end I just want to feel more control over the turn.
I think what Norm is trying to say is learning how to drive it is more important than improving the parts. Stiffening the suspension makes things happen faster, so when you lose it, it will be with less warning.

Sometimes you just ask more of the car than it can do. That can happen with poor technique or just plain overdriving. So, while locking things down and stiffening the suspension can improve control, you need to understand that that limit will come faster and you won't feel the gradual roll that the car has in stock form. It feels good when it stays flat but that can lull you into a false sense of security. Its still a machine and has limitations.
 

K4fxd

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The "oversteer" he is talking about is the stock rear bushings deflecting. My base car felt like the rear end was being held together with rubber bands.

The FIRST thing to do on a none PP car is lock the IRS cradle down.

Either the Steeda stop the hop starter kit, or the whole kit. Or the BMR offerings.

I use the Steeda system and it works great. It doesn't just stop wheel hop, it locks the IRS. I also think it ties the subframe together a lot better than the CB005.

Now if you add the CB762 it may become a wash, I have not used it.
 

Norm Peterson

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Norm - you're the first person to recommend not lowering the springs that I've seen. Why so?
It's because, first, we're building a street driver. And second because I'm a firm believer in sneaking up on your own best combination. Understand that I didn't say 'never' as far as lowering springs were concerned, only suggesting that you consider waiting until you notice your own reason for doing them (in my own case, that was, specifically, when I started noticing something about nose dive under hard braking on the track).


As for the oversteer situation, I want to be able to take turns faster without spinning out. If you are saying that is an acceleration problem with my foot I'll look there first thank you. In the end I just want to feel more control over the turn.
I think it may be bigger than just your right foot, but I guess that's as good a place as any to start. The #1 operative word especially where hard cornering is concerned is "smooth". As in, ease into all of your steering and pedal inputs instead of trying to make them all-or-nothing step changes (unless you're having to catch a bit of tailhappiness). Patience. Go fast, slowly.


I've been in your shoes. Once when there was not much to choose from suspensionwise on the aftermarket, when I knew almost nothing about this stuff, and before there was an Internet to fall back on.

And once much more recently with my '08 when I already had a modification plan in place (down to sources and part numbers) even before I ordered the car. That I set aside for a year or so, during which time I decided to hold off on getting the springs, because I realized that I really didn't even want to lower my car that far (technical reasons, NOT any appearance preference). So I stopped at bars, shocks, struts, strut mounts with camber adjustability, and a slight improvement in rear axle location. Even on the soft OE springs (softer wheel rates than even a base S550 GT), the car was both easy to drive and composed at speed on the track.


Norm
 

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K4fxd

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Norm it is a real issue on the base S550's. On a constant radius turn, anything over 70MPH the rear feels like it is fishtailing. It won't take a set and gives a seat of the pants feeling of the rear washing out.

The IRS braces stopped 90% of this on mine.
 

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DavidEcobeast

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Again. Just go with the Ford street kit and corresponding braces. Too easy.

If you want adjustability go with the Ecoboot kit from steeda.
It comes with progressive springs, camber plates, adjustable sway bars and PP1 struts/shocks.
I just installed the kit on my car and it feels great! I still need to go in for an alignment, but I dialed in the the toe and camber pretty well.
I do need to approach speed bumps a little more carefully now as well as curbs. I just back in now. What got me was another Mustang lived by me who was lowered with suspension. His car looked so much better lowered with shinny red sway bars and wide tires. Also, my cousin just got a GT premium and we took a road trip in our cars. His car was glued to the road and mine was very wobbly and sways side to side. Anything over 120 and it lifts. I will tell you this.. with my turbo upgrade on Methonal we are over 425 whp. The car gets to 130+ from cruising quickly. I let my brother drive it and he said to stop with the power and work on the suspension its not safe.

Yes...going above the speed limit is not safe!

Keep in mind though. Once we build to get into 5.0 territory, we would have been better of using that money to get a 5.0 imo.
I just like trying to make a better version of "my car"
 

Dave TBG

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PP1 struts/shocks.
Hard pass. As mentioned by others earlier, the PP1 dampers are marginally better than the base version. They'd probably be great with the stock springs but they're already at the limit with the PP1 springs (which are all of 6% stiffer if memory serves). They are inadequate with anything beyond that. I wouldn't waste my time installing them if they were free.
 

Dana Pants

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Hard pass. As mentioned by others earlier, the PP1 dampers are marginally better than the base version. They'd probably be great with the stock springs but they're already at the limit with the PP1 springs (which are all of 6% stiffer if memory serves). They are inadequate with anything beyond that. I wouldn't waste my time installing them if they were free.
PP1 shocks/struts are VERY sad. At autocross there are a few stock cars and mine with Koni Yellows at ~2 turns. My car looks much more composed on course.
 

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NightmareMoon

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IMHO you don’t need rear subframe bracing etc. its nice to have, I prefer the feel with some of the rear suspension movement adressed, but a good alignment with some toe in is good enough for most situations.

i fully agree with Norm that its perhaps best to drive the car enough to understand specific car behaviors you want to change and then do the mods to change those specific problems, otherwise you’ll end up with a laundry list of expensive parts that really only reflect some other forum members needs for confirmation bias. What are your specific goals for the suspension. How will you be using it? Daily driven? Spirited backroads, autox, drag sor road course track?

that said, you can save some time at install if you put some things in together, such as springs and shocks.

just an alignment, good shocks, and maybe swaybars can be a sweet confortable and very capable setup with few sacrifices in comfort. Tires are king for grip, going with a lot of suspension parts and running budget tires is pointless. I’d avoid the 555 2116 progressive springs, they seem more targetted towards lowering drop than performance.
 

Norm Peterson

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Norm it is a real issue on the base S550's. On a constant radius turn, anything over 70MPH the rear feels like it is fishtailing. It won't take a set and gives a seat of the pants feeling of the rear washing out.

The IRS braces stopped 90% of this on mine.
Understood. But I don't think OP is at the point where bushing deformation is getting in the way that much yet.

Improving cradle location can always be done later as a stand-alone mod when the need for it has become clearer (and the decision on which way to proceed has been thought through).


Norm
 

Norm Peterson

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I think what Norm is trying to say is learning how to drive it is more important than improving the parts. Stiffening the suspension makes things happen faster, so when you lose it, it will be with less warning.

Sometimes you just ask more of the car than it can do. That can happen with poor technique or just plain overdriving. So, while locking things down and stiffening the suspension can improve control, you need to understand that that limit will come faster and you won't feel the gradual roll that the car has in stock form. It feels good when it stays flat but that can lull you into a false sense of security. Its still a machine and has limitations.
This ^^^

I'm pushing the idea of tightening the nut behind the steering wheel with no flame whatsoever intended. Cars do behave better when you smooth out your steering and pedal work, even when they're still on the OE suspension bits.


Brian would be a good resource for anybody only looking to do mild street-oriented improvements, with or without any plans to get out on the tracks later on. Best I'll try to do here is help OP's thought process.


Norm
 

shogun32

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Before I threw the Steeda/BMR kitchen sink at my car(s) I had a tough time reading the car, especially the rear. I have a test loop I drive that has a banked entrance to the U-turn, rolls flat and then off-camber as it crests a small lip, and often has a 1 foot wide bit of wet (rivulet) right at that transition. I could bomb it all day long in the GTI and in the Camaro the rear would rock to the outside but otherwise hold. On both Mustangs I had no sense what it was doing.

Putting the IRS bushing lockouts and bracing solved that.
The stock suspension is just sad but the IRS disconnect is far worse.
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