Staggered or not

JohnnyGT

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Wow, this is one of those threads where almost everyone tracks their cars :). Those who track are definitely going to recommend what they track. Now, how many other people with Mustangs track their cars.....a very small percentage, and those people don't give a crap about tracking and instead, running whatever setup looks good, feels good, rides good, handles good, or whatever to them. What's up with the Costco hate? Many consider Costco to be good gas. Also, it has nothing to do with what one can afford or not......visit places with a lot of high-cost cars, and you will see plenty of them at Costco pumps. Keep in mind, this very forum has a huge thread where a lot of the people who run 87 octane.....yep cringe territory for many of us, but fine for them. One thing about a forum is that many of us HAVE TO BE RIGHT and everyone else is doing it wrong....doesn't matter whether their situation is different or not.

For real. Track dudes are going to have the better knowledge for proper track setups. While most of us don't track our cars.

My setup is fully street based. Not necessarily drag racing, but still a mountain carver. Both of those things as best as they can be setup.

Stop light to stop light is fun, I'm not gonna lose sleep if it doesn't hook and I lose.

Mountain runs: I will push it hard into corners, yet don't care if I'm slower than an aero modded 5th gen Supra.

Fun is fun.

BIg rear tire grip is fun.

 

Rapid Red

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[/QUOTE]
1. Max grip: Cup 2's cost the same as Hoosiers so if you're going for fastest lap times, Cup 2's are the wrong choice.
2. Grip per dollar: the Supercar 3R is faster AND cheaper than the Cup 2, so wrong again.
3. Longevity/Consistency: if you're after some practice laps, there are other tires out there that last much much longer than Cup 2's. Once again, wrong choice.
[/QUOTE]


Knowing that there is always something to learn, I will look at the Supercar 3R. oops! ...... did a search GoodYears..

I must ask do these Supercar 3Rs hold air? Goodyear Street tires have a problem with that.

Hoosiers makes a good tire, the problem with them is availability.

To be clear what is wrong to you means nothing.
Once again, means nothing.

I learn by doing, and thus forum and have an opinion from that knowledge.
Good luck
 
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slowdown

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I'm the opposite of "track guys". My car is 100% a time attack car that's SCCA Street Mod class and I don't advocate square for daily drivers and think it's a bit overkill.

Wider tires require more camber and toe which is bad for DD wear and tear. More camber and toe makes the car track worse in a straight line and causes uneven wear. At higher speeds more tire up front and camber unsettles the car while in a straight line (think why drag cars have less footprint up front) because front tires want to run away from the car so a little less footprint up front is better on the highway and roads all the way around. Less rubber up front little better gas mileage.

If you understand all of that and still run square on a DD and regularly rotate and swap then that's totally cool. But for daily drivers I don't see the need for it from a performance standpoint - a Mustang with 10 x 11 and good tires on a twisty back road is a fully capable performance car.
 

luc

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I'm the opposite of "track guys". My car is 100% a time attack car that's SCCA Street Mod class and I don't advocate square for daily drivers and think it's a bit overkill.

Wider tires require more camber and toe which is bad for DD wear and tear. More camber and toe makes the car track worse in a straight line and causes uneven wear. At higher speeds more tire up front and camber unsettles the car while in a straight line (think why drag cars have less footprint up front) because front tires want to run away from the car so a little less footprint up front is better on the highway and roads all the way around. Less rubber up front little better gas mileage.

If you understand all of that and still run square on a DD and regularly rotate and swap then that's totally cool. But for daily drivers I don't see the need for it from a performance standpoint - a Mustang with 10 x 11 and good tires on a twisty back road is a fully capable performance car.
with the proper offset, wider tires, up to 285 in front, do not require more negative camber
Toe is completely irrelevant to tires size
What wear tires is mostly toe, not camber
The less wear is zero toe
 

K4fxd

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think why drag cars have less footprint up front
I'll take a stab at this..........Less rolling resistance.

with the proper offset, wider tires, up to 285 in front, do not require more negative camber
Toe is completely irrelevant to tires size
What wear tires is mostly toe, not camber
The less wear is zero toe
^This^
 


NightmareMoon

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This thread has completely lost itself.

The OP was asking about 10/10 square versus 10/11 staggered for a street car. Aggressive 11/11 square and track handling pros and cons of square versus staggered isn't really on the table.

It would also help if more replies were from people with first hand experience running with both setups. If you think you know how much grip you're gaining by using 11s in the rear, versus 10s/285s you're probably wrong. If you think you know how bad the understeer is on a staggered setup (when you control for camber and spring/swaybar balance), you also probably don't know unless you've driven both.
 

Paul McWhiskey

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I am fairly new to this forum and have noticed that there seems to be tendencies for most threads here to go "out in the weeds". There seems to be a very fine line between opinion, fact, and preference in many cases making the collection of real knowledge a bit difficult. Don't get me wrong here. I am not flaming anyone or name calling, just pointing out something that I have noticed. It is just like using the interweb always is. One has to sort through a lot of chaff to get to the wheat. For those with the experience that does not take very long. For the rest that takes much longer, and perhaps more money, to gain the experience. To those with experience who share the knowledge, thank you. To those with opinions and preferences, thank you. To those who are honest enough to tell us that what they are telling us is experiential fact, opinion, or preference, THANK YOU! I think that it would save a lot of sniping, abuse, and time if we all were able to stay on topic, share our experience, preferences, and opinions like adults and all learn.

Myself? I have learned quite a bit here and appreciate the contributors with actual track experience the most. However, that does not infer that I don't think that the red-light racers have nothing to offer. I don't do that but find it kind of interesting none the less. The same with the auto cross, canyon carver, dig and roll guys. It is just this mountain of chaff that I have to shovel through that annoys me the most.

And, finally, I do not delude myself thinking that anything I have said will change anything here. I will continue to seek out the guys with real knowledge, ignore the ones that espouse ideas (knowledge?) that I know is junk, and enjoy the car banter meant to be fun and entertaining.

Pedal to the metal!
 

jdsfly

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On a nose heavy car like the Mustang, unless you're talking about drag racing, it doesn't make sense to stagger, unless you're going to put the wider wheels and tires on the front.
 

Rapid Red

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On a nose heavy car like the Mustang, unless you're talking about drag racing, it doesn't make sense to stagger, unless you're going to put the wider wheels and tires on the front.
What?
 

Egparson202

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On a nose heavy car like the Mustang, unless you're talking about drag racing, it doesn't make sense to stagger, unless you're going to put the wider wheels and tires on the front.
It sounds like you’re promoting the idea that the widest tires are needed where the most weight is. It’s not common to see more rubber on the front, but there are some examples. Most of the ones they come to mind are FWD autocross and track cars.
 

TexasMetallic5.0

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10/11 staggered with 285/325. Can’t rotate them, but I never do anyway. Have over 35k miles on these and am now just about needing to replace them. The front would’ve lasted longer if I’d had the toe adjusted or swapped them from side to side, which is probably just what I’ll do next time because the inside tread has worn more than anything else. It only sees highway use, so no point in going crazy with the stickiest and most expensive tires out there for my use.
 

69boss

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I'm no expert in this subject but am looking for a new set of wheels. I daily my car and do AutoX twice a month during spring and summer. I currently have 305x20 10.5" wheel rear and 275x20 9.5" wheel in the front, lowered about 1.25" on coilovers. I want to get some lightweight flow formed wheels and there's not a lot of 10.5" options, just 10" and 11". If I go with 11" squared, will it be easy to fit being lowered? Or should I go with 10" and 295 tires? I'd like to have around 1.5 degrees of camber in the back and maybe about 2-2.5 in the front. Would those be decent camber angles? I recently switched to 2.25 in the back and noticed my car was not able to hook nearly as well as before.
 

RagmopInKona

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Only you know if having fatter tires in the rear is worth the ego boost to you. but things to think about.
1) rotating the tires
2) if you pick up a nail and need to have the tire patched I rather it be on the rear and not the front, and in a staggered set up that isn't an option if a front is the one that finds the nail/screw in the road.
3) if the staggered rear tire size is an odd ball size that many tire places don't normally stock. Are you ok with being sidelined where ever you are waiting a few days or more for a new tire? If most of your driving is somewhat local to your home this might not be an issue, but if you road trip this ride, it can be a big problem.

I know stance is everything to many. but depending on your use of the vehicle and what you are ok with dealing with. only you know.
Just throwing out other things to think about other than can I rotate the tires or not.
Good luck.
 

Egparson202

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