samcrac
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2016
- Threads
- 26
- Messages
- 124
- Reaction score
- 20
- Location
- Central FL
- Vehicle(s)
- 2015 GT
- Thread starter
- #1
This is not another thread posing the question: "Should I upgrade these or should I be fine running my stock ones?"
I specifically set out to start this thread because it seems there is too much mis-information about these gears (specifically OPG and crank sprocket gears).
First off, I sometimes do too much research when something sparks my interest, and this debate really sparked my interest. Searching through multiple mustang forums, I found several (individual) posts about people shattering their Oil Pump Gears. Also, as of recent, Travis @ Boostworks publicly posted that his OPG let loose on a Twin Turbo test car. On youtube in the last few weeks, ANOTHER twin car let loose on a dyno:
[ame="[MEDIA=youtube]8Vah_roeC4w[/MEDIA]"]
Here is another testimonial from someone with a Twin Turbo (2014) Car with the OPG going (post 9 on a popular SVT car forum; we are not allowed to post other forum links here so you will have to find it)
There are many more, but these are some of the more recent postings I have found on this matter. All 3 of these cars are twin turbo cars.
I'm sure added harmonics from a belt driven supercharger do change things, and I'm not doubting, but with 3 RECENT examples of TT cars, why does it seem necessary to change the harmonic balancer? This is just a question I'm posing, this thread is not about balancers though so I am not going any further here.
To clear up some of the misconception of why billet and heat treated oil pump gears fix the issue; it is not the hardness of the metal we are interested in. From what I understand, the factory powdered metal is VERY hard but think of it like glass, any shock and it shatters. Now the aftermarket ones are the idea that these can take a harsh shock and actually be semi malleable, and flex without cracking. From what I understand, the heat treating process makes the difference in this.
There have been so many instances in OPGs breaking, and everyone says its something different: RPM Level, Power Level, added harmonics, the moon phase, etc..
It seems to me that if we take a basic benchmark of Forced Induction cars, and lets think TVS2300 cars (Roush, Edelbrock) from 11 and UP; these cars come with conservative tunes, and make what we are led to believe conservative boost/power levels for stock motors. I think we can believe this because they offer an added power terrain warranty to go along. Everyone knows that if they had to pay out the majority of these cars within the span of the warranty it wouldn't make any sense to offer it, or even offer the kit in the first place.
The decision now comes to you on the oil pump gear. Analyze your setup, and make your own decision.
I think pretty much the very similar theory apply to the Crank Sprocket. However, I encourage everyone here to do some research, and find one REAL crank sprocket that has actually broken at a reasonable non built motor power level (say 700RWHP or under) at factory RPM limit.
The only one I could find period is the screenshot of a Facebook post that MMR puts in every single one of their advertisement posts. In this post they even go to the extent to lead people to believe that Ford made the 2015 sprocket THINNER than the previous years. Is this true? I really don't know but you be the judge. Currently, MMR is the only manufacturer of these gears for 15+ cars.
Like everyone here, we all try to stay in budget when building our cars. The 2015 Coyote has provided an amazing platform for people to apply forced induction and go crazy fast on a decent budget. Sometimes we get out of hand, as a $200 Oil gear can turn into a $2000 proposition quick (+ crank sprocket, + ati balancer, + hardware, + labor).
PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THIS TOPIC IS RELATIVE. Each build is different. I am trying to relate mostly to cars with a Supercharger kit running between 6-700WHP without grossly raising the factory redline limit since it seems to be such a popular setup for these cars
I would like to thanks the following people for having and honest discussion on this and having a neutral bias as to whether these are actually needed or not:
Travis@ Boostworks
Terry @ Beefcake
Travis@ Boundary
John C with the Sweet Boostworks Kenne Bell setup
For what it is worth; a call to Ford Racing told me that on their kit, using their tune, they have experienced 0 OPG/Crankshaft gear failure and said it is designed to work just perfectly within these tolerances
I specifically set out to start this thread because it seems there is too much mis-information about these gears (specifically OPG and crank sprocket gears).
First off, I sometimes do too much research when something sparks my interest, and this debate really sparked my interest. Searching through multiple mustang forums, I found several (individual) posts about people shattering their Oil Pump Gears. Also, as of recent, Travis @ Boostworks publicly posted that his OPG let loose on a Twin Turbo test car. On youtube in the last few weeks, ANOTHER twin car let loose on a dyno:
[ame="[MEDIA=youtube]8Vah_roeC4w[/MEDIA]"]
Here is another testimonial from someone with a Twin Turbo (2014) Car with the OPG going (post 9 on a popular SVT car forum; we are not allowed to post other forum links here so you will have to find it)
There are many more, but these are some of the more recent postings I have found on this matter. All 3 of these cars are twin turbo cars.
I'm sure added harmonics from a belt driven supercharger do change things, and I'm not doubting, but with 3 RECENT examples of TT cars, why does it seem necessary to change the harmonic balancer? This is just a question I'm posing, this thread is not about balancers though so I am not going any further here.
To clear up some of the misconception of why billet and heat treated oil pump gears fix the issue; it is not the hardness of the metal we are interested in. From what I understand, the factory powdered metal is VERY hard but think of it like glass, any shock and it shatters. Now the aftermarket ones are the idea that these can take a harsh shock and actually be semi malleable, and flex without cracking. From what I understand, the heat treating process makes the difference in this.
There have been so many instances in OPGs breaking, and everyone says its something different: RPM Level, Power Level, added harmonics, the moon phase, etc..
It seems to me that if we take a basic benchmark of Forced Induction cars, and lets think TVS2300 cars (Roush, Edelbrock) from 11 and UP; these cars come with conservative tunes, and make what we are led to believe conservative boost/power levels for stock motors. I think we can believe this because they offer an added power terrain warranty to go along. Everyone knows that if they had to pay out the majority of these cars within the span of the warranty it wouldn't make any sense to offer it, or even offer the kit in the first place.
The decision now comes to you on the oil pump gear. Analyze your setup, and make your own decision.
I think pretty much the very similar theory apply to the Crank Sprocket. However, I encourage everyone here to do some research, and find one REAL crank sprocket that has actually broken at a reasonable non built motor power level (say 700RWHP or under) at factory RPM limit.
The only one I could find period is the screenshot of a Facebook post that MMR puts in every single one of their advertisement posts. In this post they even go to the extent to lead people to believe that Ford made the 2015 sprocket THINNER than the previous years. Is this true? I really don't know but you be the judge. Currently, MMR is the only manufacturer of these gears for 15+ cars.
Like everyone here, we all try to stay in budget when building our cars. The 2015 Coyote has provided an amazing platform for people to apply forced induction and go crazy fast on a decent budget. Sometimes we get out of hand, as a $200 Oil gear can turn into a $2000 proposition quick (+ crank sprocket, + ati balancer, + hardware, + labor).
PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THIS TOPIC IS RELATIVE. Each build is different. I am trying to relate mostly to cars with a Supercharger kit running between 6-700WHP without grossly raising the factory redline limit since it seems to be such a popular setup for these cars
I would like to thanks the following people for having and honest discussion on this and having a neutral bias as to whether these are actually needed or not:
Travis@ Boostworks
Terry @ Beefcake
Travis@ Boundary
John C with the Sweet Boostworks Kenne Bell setup
For what it is worth; a call to Ford Racing told me that on their kit, using their tune, they have experienced 0 OPG/Crankshaft gear failure and said it is designed to work just perfectly within these tolerances
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