SP083 / FP Track Damper vs. Steeda Dual Rate / Pro-Action Adjustable?

[TheLion]

Well, I"m not doing anything until summer next year from what I currently have. It's like I can make us of the better handling in 28F weather and freezing rain we have out side now. So I have time to decide and it's a hard choice. Both packages (the BMR / FP / Ford OE parts) hybrid package is awesome, but so is Steeda's Comp DR / ProAction package. Steeda's will offer more adjust-ability, especially if I used their bars with it, but I think I'd start out with just their struts / springs, then go from there.

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[NightmareMoon]

I'm also targetting GT350R track performance for a bit less money, and I bet I can get close, but I'm not kidding myself into thinking you can get that performance w/o similar width wheels and sticky compound tires.

So far my version (Steeda DR, Konis, geo correction, RLCA and toe bearings, camber plates, rear shock mounts) handles wonderfully, but there is a fair amount of tuning left to do with camber adjustments, shock and swaybar settings. The main thing my GT will give up to the GT350 (IMHO) is not having a magnaride suspension, so on the street a non MR GT is going to be a little harsher than a GT350 could be. I'm also playing catchup on top end horsepower.

 

[TheLion]

I'm also targetting GT350R track performance for a bit less money, and I bet I can get close, but I'm not kidding myself into thinking you can get that performance w/o similar width wheels and sticky compound tires.

So far my version (Steeda DR, Konis, geo correction, RLCA and toe bearings, camber plates, rear shock mounts) handles wonderfully, but there is a fair amount of tuning left to do with camber adjustments, shock and swaybar settings. The main thing my GT will give up to the GT350 (IMHO) is not having a magnaride suspension, so on the street a non MR GT is going to be a little harsher than a GT350 could be. I'm also playing catchup on top end horsepower.

That's kinda of what I was going for, basically I'm looking to match the SS 1LE and GT350R in handling or come darn close to the two. The GT350R has a 70 HP advantage over the 1LE or a modified PP GT and consequently it's going to be the faster car then either without going to FI or going to E85 and a custom tune + 2018 manifold etc. That will become more apparent on larger tracks, less apparent on smaller tighter tracks.

Here's the cost of my GT250R as I'm calling it, (includes what I have now plus the future spring /damper / bar upgrades):

1. $27,750 paid slightly used with following options: Ford OE Performance Package, Ford Rear park Assist, Ford Tri-coat Ruby Red, Corsa Sport Cat back Exhaust, Tinted Windows
2. $205 BMR IRS Lockout CB05
3. $59 Ford Performance Outer Toe Link Spherical Bearings M-5A460-M
4. $247 MM Caster / Camber Plates MM6CC-10
5. $335 Steeda Roll Center / Bumpsteer Correction Kit
6. $115 Steeda Tri-Ax Short Throw Shifter
7. $66 Ravenol 75W-80 Manual Trans Fluid
8. $140 JLT 3.0 Passenger Side Catch Can
9. $189 TriboTEX Diesel Concentrate DLC Friction Modifier
10. $1,000 (includes install at dealer for warranty) Ford Performance Power Pack 2
11. $269 BMR SP083 Springs
12. $515 Ford Performance Track Dampers
13. $200 Ford OE GT350R Front / Rear Bars + Bushings and Mounts
14. $148 Performance Alignment
15. $2700 RTR Tech 7 19x9.5 Light Weight Wheels + 275/40R19 Pilot Sport 4S Tires

Total Cost Without Tires / Wheels: $31,085
Total Cost including 2nd set of Tires / Wheels: $33,785

A new 1LE typically costs around $43k to $45k. I'd imagine a used one with only 5,000 miles on it would still cost around $40k~$41k. I could still buy a super charger on top of the price difference...or throw in a whole slew of other critical modifications, but for a "lite" or "budget" variant I think I can come pretty close.

The biggest question would be cooling, in particular the differential. For track, a $250 air scoop and some good fluids seem to be enough. But the diff seems to be a mixed bag, some are fine with 75W-140 weight oil, while others constantly over heat and need to step up to a diff cooler which is another $2k. I'm hoping 75W-140 will be enough for me.

 

[NightmareMoon]

75w140 and exhaust thermal wrap has been enough to keep my '16 GT completely free of diff temp sensor warnings.

Yeah, before committing to modding this GT, I went through the costs of upgrading to a new GTPP1, PP2, GT350, or even an R. Modding my current car is so much more affordable than upgrading to a new vehicle it isn't even funny.

 

[West TX GT]

I ran SP083s with Steeda adjustables on my last car and loved it. I found the sweet spot for me was the dampers turned to 3/4 stiff. The Car handled brilliant and was still perfectly acceptable for my 20 mile daily commute. With the dampers turned up like that I found the car remains flat and has excellent power down traction mid turn. It was so good I skipped the planned sway bar upgrade.

 

[TheLion]

I ran SP083s with Steeda adjustables on my last car and loved it. I found the sweet spot for me was the dampers turned to 3/4 stiff. The Car handled brilliant and was still perfectly acceptable for my 20 mile daily commute. With the dampers turned up like that I found the car remains flat and has excellent power down traction mid turn. It was so good I skipped the planned sway bar upgrade.

Very intriguing. I may just have to go with the pro-actions and SP083 combination. I still have reservations about a 2Hz ride frequency with the Comp DR's. That's getting to the very upper limit of what is optimal for performance sedans and stiffer is NOT always better as it can over load the tires more quickly, making the car more edgy, albiet more responsive. Did you have a Performance Package on your last GT or was it a base you upgraded? That would tell me what rear bar you car had (21mm base model vs. 22mm PP).

I'm wondering about the balance. I don't want the car to over steer on exit when putting the power down. I'd like it to "straighten out" and remain relatively flat through mid and on exit. Right now it has a nice balance other than too much roll in corners, i'm loosing traction on the inside tire, so I need more spring, not more bar. Could use a little more responsiveness as well, but its leaps and bounds beyond what it was stock after the roll center and alignment vs. just a compromise after lowering (before roll center was corrected).

I'm really liking where this is going and for how cheap it is compared to other options. It's a heck of a car for the price!

 

[Norm Peterson]

In an IRS car I don't think you'd have much issue with ride frequencies at least as high as 1.8 Hz.


Norm

 

[TheLion]

In an IRS car I don't think you'd have much issue with ride frequencies at least as high as 1.8 Hz.


Norm

Are you referring to ride quality or handling dynamics?

 

[West TX GT]

It was a performance package. Oversteer was easily controlled with the throttle but I had 275 fronts and 305 rear Conti ECS on staggered RTR tech 7s, so that may have prevented oversteer issues that may happen when running square.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Are you referring to ride quality or handling dynamics?

Ride quality, because these are still street springs in terms of rate, and everybody has a limit to what they're willing to live with all the time. So you might as well follow a performance street approach here even if you do choose the stiffer set of springs.

At ~GT350R wheel rates/frequencies, you're still putting together a street/track package rather than a track/street setup. Once the springs are chosen, you'd fine-tune the steady-state handling balance with sta-bars without incurring very much penalty on ride quality at all (you might not even notice).


My granddaughter now drives the car I was referring to as an IRS car with the ride frequency at one end being ~1.8 Hz.


Norm

 

[TheLion]

I think @BmacIL is running 4 square, SP083's and FP Track dampers on PP sway bars with RE-71R's. I suppose he could chime in on mid-corner and exit. However I'm going to have more steering than he does because of my corrected front roll center. The car has way more turn in and mid corner than it used to. It's extremely well balanced right now with good turn in, mid and steers itself practically on exit. I wouldn't want more steering on exit than I have now.

I suppose running narrower tires in the rear than the GT350 would result in less steering on exit as there's less available rear traction. I might be the best off just starting with the springs and dampers then tweak the bars from there. I could also play with rebound adjustments to tune as well with the pro-actions.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I suppose running narrower tires in the rear than the GT350 would result in less steering on exit as there's less available rear traction.

Also more front slip angle. I'd be careful about counting on "less available rear traction" - it's inherently a less stable condition.

I might be the best off just starting with the springs and dampers then tweak the bars from there. I could also play with rebound adjustments to tune as well with the pro-actions.

Sounds like a plan. Solve part of the problem and see what you need from there.


You may have missed the last edit I made above.


Norm

 

[BmacIL]

I think @BmacIL is running 4 square, SP083's and FP Track dampers on PP sway bars with RE-71R's. I suppose he could chime in on mid-corner and exit. However I'm going to have more steering than he does because of my corrected front roll center. The car has way more turn in and mid corner than it used to. It's extremely well balanced right now with good turn in, mid and steers itself practically on exit. I wouldn't want more steering on exit than I have now.

I suppose running narrower tires in the rear than the GT350 would result in less steering on exit as there's less available rear traction. I might be the best off just starting with the springs and dampers then tweak the bars from there. I could also play with rebound adjustments to tune as well with the pro-actions.

The SP083 wheel rate balance is actually a little more front heavy than rear compared to SP080s. With RE71Rs or even my normal street tires, it has a very mild mid-corner/steady state (no throttle or brake) understeer, and an extremely controllable corner exit, that's either neutral or slight oversteer depending on the amount of throttle and the rate I apply the throttle. Corner entry is similar: it will oversteer if I chop throttle and give a good amount of steering input, but will be pretty neutral with smooth inputs.

I find it a very approachable setup for driving quickly as it will only get you out of shape if you're hustling it too aggressively.

 

[TheLion]

Are there any concerns of the Pro-Actions having too much damping even at their minimum settings with the SP083s? I know the FP Track Struts are really good, but they are fixed rate, so what you get is what you get. But the Pro-actions were set up for damping 350 lb springs, not 250 lb...I'm just wondering if they can be adjusted down enough to be optimal for that much of a rate drop.

 

[BmacIL]

Are there any concerns of the Pro-Actions having too much damping even at their minimum settings with the SP083s? I know the FP Track Struts are really good, but they are fixed rate, so what you get is what you get. But the Pro-actions were set up for damping 350 lb springs, not 250 lb...I'm just wondering if they can be adjusted down enough to be optimal for that much of a rate drop.

No, definitely not. Before the FP Track, I had the fixed Pro-Actions.They didn't have enough damping for the SP083s (at least in the rear). Those have valving similar to what ~1 turn up from soft on the Adjustable Pro-Actions have. You'll have zero issue using those with the SP083s and honestly, it's a very attractive pairing. 1.25-1.5 turns will probably be the sweet spot in the rear. For Konis it was around 0.75-1.0 turns, but those have a different adjustment range. For the front I'd expect around 1.5 turns.

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