Socialism good or bad?

[CAL Captain]

Stats are not very useful without context:...

When I read a well-reasoned argument such as this, I almost forget the actual reason for govt-funded medicine is control of the masses and not the delivery of good healthcare. Politicians--almost without exception--only care about how much control over you they exercise and the left (where most of this adulation of socialized medicine resides) have been seeking single payer healthcare since at least Wilson's time.

To paraphrase bernie yesterday: Everyone can have free healthcare... we just have to raise taxes to pay for it.

And he was cheered.

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[BmacIL]

If we could control costs our current system would work better. Our government is never good at controlling costs

How would you propose controlling costs? In my view it's relaxing certain regulations and imposing others to steer the system away from being tens of profit centers for a single patient.

Headline from Fox News today says Bernie's medicare for all will cost every family $20k more in taxes.

One should take anything said on that channel to be taken with a grain of salt. They have an agenda just like the supposed far left news channels do, and it sure as shit isn't fair and balanced. Maybe if Shep Smith was talking about it...

 

[Anthony 05 GT]

Please

 

[Weather Man]

@Caballus, all you need to understand about those charts is the origin of them. Note the bottom right hand corner of each one.

There is an idiot corner of the internet, and many members here are regular attendees.

Yes, the right has to put them back out corrected from lefty stupidity. But an idiot such as yourself should be able to decipher that the charts are all about coercion of the individual, something lefties are intimately familiar with. And anyone with half a brain can read what lefties today and what Hitler was saying in the late 30's and have no doubt about where Nazism falls on the political scale. Well, I should say everyone can see it except lefty parrots.

It continually amazes me that lefties on car enthusiast sites back the very party that came within a whisker of gutting our passion and if back in control will assuredly do it for real. Or that the Obama EPA fuel emission guideline, if implemented, would mean you drive electric whether you want to or not. Just such sham wow stupidity or just willful whistling past the grave I guess.

 

[IPOGT]

Sigh.

Eleventh is dead last. On that list. As determined by the group that made it. You'd see that if you clicked the link. It's a list of countries that are ahead of the USA. Are you happy coming eleventh? Don't you want to be on the podium?

You then go on to slag off the USA government and say they can't run healthcare. Well hello, that's why the USA is last!

All these other countries above you on the list have socialized healthcare and they can make it work....why can't the great USA do it? You put men on the moon ffs.

Simple answer. When you let everyone in here and cannot control borders then at what point do you find that you aren't able to pay for all these people? Other countries have much better control of their immigration system which allows them to help their citizens and offer solutions because they have control over who their citizens are and why they are there.

 

[Docscurlock]

How would you propose controlling costs? In my view it's relaxing certain regulations and imposing others to steer the system away from being tens of profit centers for a single patient.


One should take anything said on that channel to be taken with a grain of salt. They have an agenda just like the supposed far left news channels do, and it sure as shit isn't fair and balanced. Maybe if Shep Smith was talking about it...

I have mentioned some ways to control costs before but will touch on them again. Tort reform, FDA regulation reform, Reducing Administrative Costs, Focus on Preventive Care, Eliminate Unnecessary Tests and Procedures, Controlling the Costs of Prescription Drugs. For example, "Our government must control the prices of prescription drugs as is done in nearly every other nation. Drug companies can charge whatever they wish in the US. Citizens of other nations pay 20% to 40% less for prescription drugs compared with what Americans pay." https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(09)01115-2/fulltext

Okay, fine, I will got to CBS news and look at their drivel. Sen. Bernie Sanders' "Medicare for all" plan would increase government health care spending by $32.6 trillion over 10 years, https://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-...d-by-bernie-sanders-would-cost-32-6-trillion/

Thats 32.6 trillion, compared to total US GDP of 20.5 trilion/year thats 15% of every dollar that is produced and consumed in the US every year. holy crap, the most expensive solution in the history of mankind.

 

[Docscurlock]

Simple answer. When you let everyone in here and cannot control borders then at what point do you find that you aren't able to pay for all these people? Other countries have much better control of their immigration system which allows them to help their citizens and offer solutions because they have control over who their citizens are and why they are there.

Actually you are seeing a surge of nationalism in European countries right now in response to the problems unfettered immigration is causing.

 

[Weather Man]

Actually you are seeing a surge of nationalism in European countries right now in response to the problems unfettered immigration is causing.

Way to late for a lot of those countries, feel sorry for what is happening now and sure to happen in the future.

 

[Docscurlock]

Way to late for a lot of those countries, feel sorry for what is happening now and sure to happen in the future.

Its never too late to try to start fixing things. It's hard to feel sorry for these people though, socialism hasn't worked anywhere else in recorded history, why should it start now. Has the basic nature of humankind to be greedy, self serving with a desire to mate with as many others changed since we were cavemen?

 

[Weather Man]

Its never too late to try to start fixing things. It's hard to feel sorry for these people though, socialism hasn't worked anywhere else in recorded history, why should it start now. Has the basic nature of humankind to be greedy, self serving with a desire to mate with as many others changed since we were cavemen?

The mass Islamic migration into many of those countries is not going to end well. I just hope it doesn't go kablooey while I am still around, I think it will be horrific.

 

[Docscurlock]

The mass Islamic migration into many of those countries is not going to end well. I just hope it doesn't go kablooey while I am still around, I think it will be horrific.

Let's focus on keeping our house in order first. Europe has been one disaster after another for a millenia.

 

[Weather Man]

Let's focus on keeping our house in order first. Europe has been one disaster after another for a millenia.

Sadly, the 80,000 Somali's Obama dumped in MN are going nowhere.

 

[BmacIL]

I have mentioned some ways to control costs before but will touch on them again. Tort reform, FDA regulation reform, Reducing Administrative Costs, Focus on Preventive Care, Eliminate Unnecessary Tests and Procedures, Controlling the Costs of Prescription Drugs. For example, "Our government must control the prices of prescription drugs as is done in nearly every other nation. Drug companies can charge whatever they wish in the US. Citizens of other nations pay 20% to 40% less for prescription drugs compared with what Americans pay." https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(09)01115-2/fulltext

I'd agree with a lot of that, particularly the last three things you mentioned. FDA reform is a slippery slope, one that I support in general but more in ways that are good for the patient/customer. Reducing administrative costs, IMO, comes with a lot of the other things. If you reduce unnecessary procedures, testing, and focus on preventative care rather than medicating the crap out of everything, your administrative costs will go down. My wife works in the IT side of healthcare and the VAST majority of the administrative costs are related to billing and insurance. This is one area where single payer could be greatly effective at reducing costs, as you wouldn't need an army of people to be managing this. Knowing the way our government works, I doubt we'd execute it that efficiently, unfortunately.

Controlling the costs of prescription drugs: couldn't agree more. This is a "socialism" way of thinking, though ; ). We've tried to let the free market control Rx prices...it doesn't work, and our people are getting bent over the table every day by those greedy sons of bitches. There are many drugs out there were US Citizens pay 200-500% more than in other countries. It's disgusting.

 

[BmacIL]

Has the basic nature of humankind to be greedy, self serving with a desire to mate with as many others changed since we were cavemen?

No, which is why pure, unregulated capitalism or libertarianism doesn't work properly, either.

 

[IPOGT]

Sadly, the 80,000 Somali's Obama dumped in MN are going nowhere.[/Q

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