PewterCam
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2014
- Threads
- 14
- Messages
- 815
- Reaction score
- 237
- Location
- Chicago Suburbs
- Vehicle(s)
- 2001 Z28 Camaro and 2015 Ecoboost Mustang
- Thread starter
- #1
So you car is smoking and can't wrap you head around the 700+ posts in the Blue smoke out of exhaust thread? look no further the answers in one post!
Blue smoke... What are the symptoms?
Well its blue smoke and the scent of burning oil at idle that changes depending on vacuum. You will most likley also notice a large amount of carbon buildup on the exhaust. Here is a video showing it happening.
[ame]
In most cases it starts to happening soon after an aftermarket Downpipe (DP) is installed but there have been cases of it happening on stock DP cars as well.
Why does it happen? Well Map Performance pointed out, "... with less backpressure (with an aftermarket DP) it allows the rear seal of the turbo to develop a very very small oil drip. A small drop of oil the size of a tear drop will cause a smoke show, so the very tiny amount of smoke you are seeing is from a drop that is hardly measurable."
so its a small amount of oil seeping in form the seal on the turbo.
Is it a blown Turbo seal?? MazdaSpeed 3 has issues with turbo seals as well.. Bgolden stated, "The smoke is from the PCV set up on this motor. Our car started doing it shortly after I installed our downpipe. I can tell you it is not from the turbos and it is not like the Mazdaspeed issues.
Once the car starts smoking if you rev it and hold it at 1500 for 10 seconds it will clear up. At least ours would. I have never seen the smoke while driving or on the dyno... "
BGolden further points out, "If it was a turbo issue the smoke would get worse as rpms rise. Because oil pressure rises and would compound the oil leaking past the seals in the turbo. We do not have this issue. Instead there is a positive crank case pressure at idle and it is not allowing the oil to drain into the pan as the pressure is greater than the gravity feed. Therefore you have oil backing up in the turbo and has no where to go, so it seeps past the seals. We have seen smoking only at idle and no rpms which is not a turbo issue but a positive crank cad at idle. The smoke goes away at 1200 rpms when there is a draw on the crank case..."
How do we know its a PCV problem? There were various attempts to correct it with restricting the oil feel to the turbo, placing a breather valved oil cap on the car, changing oil, replacing turbos, and tuning. Eventually all the focus was placed on the PCV and was found out, without a doubt, that the PCV was the problem. The underlined section above explains it perfectly.
How do I fix it? Well there are multiple options here. I'm sure ford is aware of it (at least I hope they are) and will come out with a revised PCV but we've not heard anything as of yet. The cars that have been brought to the dealers have no fix as of yet. Some people have gotten new turbos out of the deal only to have it smoke still. If your car is stock and are concerned about your warranty take it to the dealer. Mention to them you think the PCV is messed up because it only smokes at idle and changes depending on the vacuum that is being pulled but doesn't smoke any other time.
For those that are less concerned and more adventurous. read on because there is a fix. You need to gut the PCV and place a 1 way valve into the system to replace it. Its best to do this with a catch can because it will also have the added benefit of keeping oil out of your intake manifold.
The easiest option (and best IMO) is a UPR Dual Valve Catch can with a gutted stock PCV. Best option because the Dual valve already has Check valves built and ready for the setup. Diagram on how it installs here
Next option.. Buy a catch can of your choice and add a one way valve into the system yourself. this would mean cutting a line on the Catch can of your choice and adding in a valve.
3rd option.. add a check valve into the stock PCV line that attached the intake to the PCV valve and gut the stock PCV. I tried this myself and it does work but... It also allows oil to get into your intake manifold. Again it will stop the smoke but pull small amounts of oil into the intake which is not ideal for anything on the intake side of the engine.
Last option is to wait.. Eventually Ford will release an updated PCV (or I least hope they will) and they will be available to buy and change yourself or take your car into the dealer and have it changed.
But wait.. how do you gut the PCV? well you need to remove the PCV from the driver side of the engine block, cut the end off the PCV and take the 2 springs and piston out as seen here. Another shot of the PCV guts here
Where is the PCV? It is part of the Oil separator. Part # info here and can be had for 20-$30 tops. , Looks like this. and is on the drivers side of the engine block under the intake manifold.
What is the best method to gut it?
Well Greg Hazlett's recommendation.. and how I did mine
note *** DO NOT GUT YOUR PCV WITHOUT A PROPER ONE WAY VALVE INSTALLED TO REPLACE IT! the car will not run right at all!
Options that can help mask the problem but not solve it....
Raise the Idle. have a tuner Raise the idle to 950rpm. by raining the idle it pulls less vacuum and stops the smoking. Its not 100% and chances are it will eventually start to smoke again or may continue to smoke small amounts.
Change oil. some people have switched to other oils such as Rotella T6 and experienced less problems. Or even used thicker oil. Be careful though as too thick an oil can also be harmful to your engine.
Restrict the oil to the turbo to stop too much from backing up and seeping out of the turbo seal. Restricting the oil to the turbo was tried with limited results. Playing with oil restrictors on a turbo can be detrimental to the bearings on it so its not recommended unless you are really adventurous or really know what you are doing.
What doesn't work at all...
Breather oil cap. I tried this myself and found no change at all to the smoking.
Oil additives won't helps at all either and neither will any Gas additive.
Adding a catch can but leaving the PCV stock. simply adding a catch can to the system doesn't work because the PCV is the problem. A catch can will keep oil from reaching your intake which is always a good thing but it will still smoke because the PCV is the problem.
AGAIN DO NOT GUT YOUR PCV WITHOUT A PROPER ONE WAY VALVE INSTALLED TO REPLACE IT!
so to review..the Blue smoke at idle is oil seeping past the turbo seals because the PCV is allowing positive crankcase pressure at idle and backing oil up in the turbo depending on the vacuum the car is pulling. It usually happens to cars with Aftermarket free flowing Downpipes but can happen to stock cars to a lesser extent. The only fix is to address the root cause of the problem which is the PCV. This is achieved by gutting the PCV and adding a check valve to keep boost out of the crankcase. Its easiest and best way is to add a catch can with a Check valve system in place or buy a catch can of your choice and add a check valve yourself.
Questions? comments? Anything I missed? Please let me know!
I read through all 700+ posts to make total sense of this and a lot of people put time into that thread. Special thanks to all the members that posted in the Blue Smoke thread and the Adventurous souls that experimented with their cars and the sponsors that chimed in with their expertise!
On my personal car I went with the UPR Dual Valve Catch can, removed my intake manifold, and gutted the PCV.
Blue smoke... What are the symptoms?
Well its blue smoke and the scent of burning oil at idle that changes depending on vacuum. You will most likley also notice a large amount of carbon buildup on the exhaust. Here is a video showing it happening.
[ame]
In most cases it starts to happening soon after an aftermarket Downpipe (DP) is installed but there have been cases of it happening on stock DP cars as well.
Why does it happen? Well Map Performance pointed out, "... with less backpressure (with an aftermarket DP) it allows the rear seal of the turbo to develop a very very small oil drip. A small drop of oil the size of a tear drop will cause a smoke show, so the very tiny amount of smoke you are seeing is from a drop that is hardly measurable."
so its a small amount of oil seeping in form the seal on the turbo.
Is it a blown Turbo seal?? MazdaSpeed 3 has issues with turbo seals as well.. Bgolden stated, "The smoke is from the PCV set up on this motor. Our car started doing it shortly after I installed our downpipe. I can tell you it is not from the turbos and it is not like the Mazdaspeed issues.
Once the car starts smoking if you rev it and hold it at 1500 for 10 seconds it will clear up. At least ours would. I have never seen the smoke while driving or on the dyno... "
BGolden further points out, "If it was a turbo issue the smoke would get worse as rpms rise. Because oil pressure rises and would compound the oil leaking past the seals in the turbo. We do not have this issue. Instead there is a positive crank case pressure at idle and it is not allowing the oil to drain into the pan as the pressure is greater than the gravity feed. Therefore you have oil backing up in the turbo and has no where to go, so it seeps past the seals. We have seen smoking only at idle and no rpms which is not a turbo issue but a positive crank cad at idle. The smoke goes away at 1200 rpms when there is a draw on the crank case..."
How do we know its a PCV problem? There were various attempts to correct it with restricting the oil feel to the turbo, placing a breather valved oil cap on the car, changing oil, replacing turbos, and tuning. Eventually all the focus was placed on the PCV and was found out, without a doubt, that the PCV was the problem. The underlined section above explains it perfectly.
How do I fix it? Well there are multiple options here. I'm sure ford is aware of it (at least I hope they are) and will come out with a revised PCV but we've not heard anything as of yet. The cars that have been brought to the dealers have no fix as of yet. Some people have gotten new turbos out of the deal only to have it smoke still. If your car is stock and are concerned about your warranty take it to the dealer. Mention to them you think the PCV is messed up because it only smokes at idle and changes depending on the vacuum that is being pulled but doesn't smoke any other time.
For those that are less concerned and more adventurous. read on because there is a fix. You need to gut the PCV and place a 1 way valve into the system to replace it. Its best to do this with a catch can because it will also have the added benefit of keeping oil out of your intake manifold.
The easiest option (and best IMO) is a UPR Dual Valve Catch can with a gutted stock PCV. Best option because the Dual valve already has Check valves built and ready for the setup. Diagram on how it installs here
Next option.. Buy a catch can of your choice and add a one way valve into the system yourself. this would mean cutting a line on the Catch can of your choice and adding in a valve.
3rd option.. add a check valve into the stock PCV line that attached the intake to the PCV valve and gut the stock PCV. I tried this myself and it does work but... It also allows oil to get into your intake manifold. Again it will stop the smoke but pull small amounts of oil into the intake which is not ideal for anything on the intake side of the engine.
Last option is to wait.. Eventually Ford will release an updated PCV (or I least hope they will) and they will be available to buy and change yourself or take your car into the dealer and have it changed.
But wait.. how do you gut the PCV? well you need to remove the PCV from the driver side of the engine block, cut the end off the PCV and take the 2 springs and piston out as seen here. Another shot of the PCV guts here
Where is the PCV? It is part of the Oil separator. Part # info here and can be had for 20-$30 tops. , Looks like this. and is on the drivers side of the engine block under the intake manifold.
What is the best method to gut it?
Well Greg Hazlett's recommendation.. and how I did mine
You can also attempt to get the PCV off from the bottom but it is super time consuming and well worth removing the intake manifold in my opinion.
note *** DO NOT GUT YOUR PCV WITHOUT A PROPER ONE WAY VALVE INSTALLED TO REPLACE IT! the car will not run right at all!
Options that can help mask the problem but not solve it....
Raise the Idle. have a tuner Raise the idle to 950rpm. by raining the idle it pulls less vacuum and stops the smoking. Its not 100% and chances are it will eventually start to smoke again or may continue to smoke small amounts.
Change oil. some people have switched to other oils such as Rotella T6 and experienced less problems. Or even used thicker oil. Be careful though as too thick an oil can also be harmful to your engine.
Restrict the oil to the turbo to stop too much from backing up and seeping out of the turbo seal. Restricting the oil to the turbo was tried with limited results. Playing with oil restrictors on a turbo can be detrimental to the bearings on it so its not recommended unless you are really adventurous or really know what you are doing.
What doesn't work at all...
Breather oil cap. I tried this myself and found no change at all to the smoking.
Oil additives won't helps at all either and neither will any Gas additive.
Adding a catch can but leaving the PCV stock. simply adding a catch can to the system doesn't work because the PCV is the problem. A catch can will keep oil from reaching your intake which is always a good thing but it will still smoke because the PCV is the problem.
AGAIN DO NOT GUT YOUR PCV WITHOUT A PROPER ONE WAY VALVE INSTALLED TO REPLACE IT!
so to review..the Blue smoke at idle is oil seeping past the turbo seals because the PCV is allowing positive crankcase pressure at idle and backing oil up in the turbo depending on the vacuum the car is pulling. It usually happens to cars with Aftermarket free flowing Downpipes but can happen to stock cars to a lesser extent. The only fix is to address the root cause of the problem which is the PCV. This is achieved by gutting the PCV and adding a check valve to keep boost out of the crankcase. Its easiest and best way is to add a catch can with a Check valve system in place or buy a catch can of your choice and add a check valve yourself.
Questions? comments? Anything I missed? Please let me know!
I read through all 700+ posts to make total sense of this and a lot of people put time into that thread. Special thanks to all the members that posted in the Blue Smoke thread and the Adventurous souls that experimented with their cars and the sponsors that chimed in with their expertise!
On my personal car I went with the UPR Dual Valve Catch can, removed my intake manifold, and gutted the PCV.
Sponsored
