Shelby GT350/350R Shifter Buzz Rattle Repair Solution PLEASE READ

Discussion in 'Shelby GT350 Mustang' started by MustangCollector, Aug 5, 2017.

  1. cking

    cking Well-Known Member

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    SILLY? Must first words were terrible, flimsy! The worst performance part on car that driver has an Interaction with. Must go!

    I'll go as far as saying you ain't really driving this car with stock shifter. I'd bet just a shifter change would take seconds off a drivers lap times.
     
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  2. DrumReaper

    DrumReaper Well-Known Member

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    Question for the OP... since you alcantara'ed that console, are you gonna do the same to that console lid?
     
  3. Zombo

    Zombo befejezett

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    In the Driveopolis review, which I think is quite good, he characterized the shifter as being functional, but having a slight rubberyness to the feel, especially compared to the GT4.

    .
     
  4. ThreeFiveO

    ThreeFiveO Chassis #1356

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    Amazes me how a DIY thread aimed to help others can become a s**t show within half a page. smh
     
  5. Epiphany

    Epiphany Well-Known Member

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    Trust but verify. Words to live by.

    100% of the reviews don't take the shifter apart! You nailed it! That is the context of this thread, not "Car and Driver, etc." They write, not break down, repair, or design. Note when they have a problem they take it somewhere to have someone else get dirt under their fingernails.

    This is garbage and horrible and that isn't silly. You keep referring to the MGW and I've been trying to discuss the merits, or lack thereof, of the OEM unit. I can indeed discuss other units if you'd like to go into depth but again, until you understand this particular unit, how it works, the materials used, and how it wears, we're wasting time. Take a closer look at the recent Camaro TR6060 shifter (both Gen five and Gen six) and you'll see the roots of this particular shifter and a better grasp. Educate yourself on single axis units, cable units, pendulum units...and not just what Motor Trend or some guy on Facebook says. Take them apart, see what wears and what doesn't. That's when the "reviews" will mean something.
     
  6. OP
    OP
    MustangCollector

    MustangCollector Well-Known Member

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    pathetic how some of you guys went on a rant over me taking time to solve a problem most Gt350 owners complain about. I advise the moderators to clean this thread up and stick to the subject. It is quite obvious there are vendors all over this forum using alias to create these rants in threads and i have seen proof of this for 3 years, get over it some of you guys have way too much time to be disruptive and not offering anything positive to the forum. I took the time to share a solution to a problem not to have others get into arguments over the OEM shifter and comparing it to aftermarket that isn't the point of what i did. Sounds to me like my solution might steer people away from buying aftermarket shifters? hope so and il have the last laugh i guess. And for all you "professional" competition drivers good luck at the race track, hope you win the next race because of your fancy new shifter!
     
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  7. OP
    OP
    MustangCollector

    MustangCollector Well-Known Member

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    yes i plan to but need to stitch the seam, haven't decided on the look just yet, who knows when il have time to do it. I might do a single top stitch in light gray to match the ones on the door inserts, not a fan of the double stitch since nothing on this car is double stitched except the console lid, kinda looks out of place.
     
  8. stanglife

    stanglife Well-Known Member

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    Not that you could actually measure this but....bet accepted?

    I think, as pointed out, Epiphany is accustomed to highly-engineered mechanisms and in that regard, the OE shifter is susceptible to his scrutiny.

    Epiphany - I know you didn't bring up an aftermarket shifter at first - but interactions with you tell us that you have a friendly relationship with MGW, that you have spent considerable time on the subject and are obviously very passionate about this and the hobby in general - all good! Point is - it's not hard to imagine the inference.

    I'm in the boat of - I don't see anything wrong with the shifter at this point. If it makes some noise, I would be more likely to try the OPs fix as opposed to replacing the shifter. After owning 15 cars with manual transmissions (OE and aftermarket shifters) - I can say that I like this one the best. Would I like the MGW more, maybe - but I think the OE is far from the turd you guys are making it out to be. Maybe ignorance is bliss? (I know I set myself up on that one, don't take the cheap bait).

    Thanks OP, for the options.
     
  9. Secondtime

    Secondtime Well-Known Member

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    Mustang collector thanks for the write up ,I have only track raced 2times with car an find shifter adequate.However I have 100's of 1/4 runs (not with this car ) where I can I can see a clear benefit of using a aftermarket shifter.For all the Mustangs I've owned or driven from fox body's to present I beleve this is the best shifter ford has put into a car.Thats just my 2 cents on this topic
     
  10. cking

    cking Well-Known Member

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    It would be difficult to measure, I think if you had the chance run both you'd both you would say it helped in several ways. Missing shifts blows your confidence forces you to be distracted by the task from more important things. Just like auto blip and anti lock help the less skilled driver.

    Yes thank you for the fix! I think people would also like hear what you learned covering the console, it looks good.

    Threads drift stop reading when no longer interested. I find it interesting opinions vary so greatly and the points of view. Like Epiphany has educated me so many different shifter designs. Where my point of view is I don't know why its better just to me way better.

    But I think burgerking burgers are better MicD.

    So I don't think we need monitor police it will die on its own accord.
     
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  11. DrumReaper

    DrumReaper Well-Known Member

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    Ignorance may be bliss... I'm still awaiting your experience with the Steeda G brace.
     
  12. chitlins37

    chitlins37 Well-Known Member

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    #32 chitlins37, Aug 6, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
    Trust me it is....I took a light year leap from a 2013 Maxima to my R. My first time ever on a track will be if/when I can get out to Toelle before May of next year. I love almost everything about the car...literally.

    Some of the deeper technical aspects I see folks take issue with on these forums I enjoy reading about but I am very glad to be ignorant of them other than what I read here. As a first time owner of a 'real' performance machine I warrantied up so anything that happens near-term (5yr/75k b2b, 10x maint trips, tire/wheel) will be stock mechanically and will also be Ford's responsibility to fix. But trust I am learning, taking notes and keeping a list of potential mods down the road so thanks to those who are sharing in-depth knowledge and their perspective about various components/systems. I am one guy who reads it all and appreciates it.
     
  13. stanglife

    stanglife Well-Known Member

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    Love you as a mustang brother but man the stubbornness turns you into a moron sometimes.
     
  14. J_Maher_AMG

    J_Maher_AMG Well-Known Member

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    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

    I appreciate the laughs :thumbsup:

    If a shifter swap can you gain you seconds off a lap, I'm sorry, you don't belong on the racetrack to begin with...

    FYI Randy Pobst had no issues with hammering it hard during gear changes.. watch the hot laps.

    [ame]
     
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  15. Lurker_350

    Lurker_350 Well-Known Member

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    [MENTION=10530]MustangCollector[/MENTION] - thanks for the how to post. I hate the rattles that come from the shifter above 3500 rpm and am not quite ready to spring for an MGW - maybe for Christmas :D.

    I have a couple questions if you don't mind:

    What size heat shrink tubing did you use? I found a couple of good options at McMasterCarr, but they may be too thick.

    https://www.mcmaster.com/#7831k13/=18u5fpu

    https://www.mcmaster.com/#2587k21/=18u5g0w

    Which change do you think abated most of the noise - the heat shrink between the spring and shaft or the o-ring/caulking fix?

    Can you provide any specifics on the o-ring size you used? I have some assorted HNBR o-rings for AC fittings, but they are likely too small.

    Thanks again!
     
  16. Epiphany

    Epiphany Well-Known Member

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    Everyone loves to see a solution to a problem and it was nice of you to share you're experience on the matter. You should know by now that it doesn't end there. Enjoy your stock shifter and the fix you imparted upon it.

    My mechanical experience didn't begin with my being introduced to the proprietor of MGW.

    Look at it this way. The OEM's have pretty much across the board decided to save money when it comes to budgeting for shifter development and production. In the case of the GT350, a minimalist design was chosen and hardware was obtained offshore. You're a hero if you can save monies here, especially when the "reviewers" rave. If you are content with that, great. But for those that understand the mechanicals in a deeper context, disappointment calls.

    For the nth time, I'm not talking about this with respect to a pure aftermarket solution but rather on the OEM level and the choices that were made. The issue the OP (and many others) has seen is simply a result of a cost driven and engineered design that Ford felt met the minimum. The alternative(s) don't necessarily imply an increase in cost, although it may have given that Ford saved by utilizing an existing design that in essence was pilfered from another manufacturer.

    Ford went with a pendulum design (ala the GT500 shifter architecture on the TR6060, the Camaro, etc) because a typical, simple single axis design (ala the Mustang MT82, certain Corvettes, etc) shifter wouldn't work. The issue is that the transmission output rod that connects to the transmission on the GT350 (the TR3160) needs to rotate in the same direction as the stick when moved laterally in either direction. That means that a single shaft shifter wouldn't work as the linkage moves in the opposite direction of the shifter when moved left or right. So the pendulum design was a natural and fell in line with keeping cost at a bare minimum, along with using an offshore source.

    Materials selection is predominantly aluminum for obvious reasons. The pivot area is a composite spherical, halved ball, that rides in a caged race made of similar material. This is where accuracy is lost. To avoid bind, a general amount of clearance is introduced here when new and grows as the two wear on one another. To those that take umbrage, I offer no apology in advance here - a quick video I made of a new GT350 shifter on a stand I built to hold a TR3160 up for analysis and product design purposes. Yes, it's George talking/shifting. Take it as a data point and not the whole enchilada on the matter.


    [ame]


    The Camaro inspired shifter ball/race degrades in rather poor fashion. Here's a look at a unit that has been "broken in" and you can readily see the increased slop. GM used black as opposed to Ford's white but if you go full screen you can see more of what I'm getting at. The fact that the entire shifter body moves is a bushing related matter and a subsequent NVH related choice. Fodder for another discussion, the focus is on the sphere/race here.


    [ame]


    [​IMG]


    The above is an example of what I'm getting at regarding cost cutting. Some OEM's and aftermarket manufacturers try to minimize the issue by using a machined steel sphere. Ford Racing does as much with their replacement stick that eliminates the composite ball.

    M-7210-M8A.jpg


    Steel helps but we are discussing the OEM choice to stick with bare bones budgeting.

    Relative to the problem of the reverse lockout collar, Ford once again chose to spend pennies. The composite collar is good for tolerance issues related to heat and keeps weight and cost down. Some have experienced bind that IMHO looks to be tolerance related. The spring was chosen for a light "feel" that many like about the stock shifter when trying to engage reverse. There's a balance here however as this light of a spring can also encourage the collar to stick as there isn't always enough spring pressure to ensure that the collar returns to it's original position. The piece of foam is there to alleviate rattling. Problem is, it doesn't last long and didn't really work that well to begin with.

    [​IMG]


    I'd be happy to discuss the linkage and architecture further but am probably already at risk of falling victim to the TLDR/finger pointing crowd. So, finito.

    That, is good attitude.

    McMaster Carr is a great source. Be forewarned, however. Not all heat shrink is to be used in an environment that induces friction/wear on it and may degrade if oiled or lubricated. Consider that if you choose to do as the OP did.
     
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  17. cking

    cking Well-Known Member

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    #37 cking, Aug 7, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
    Ok I just watched the video all I saw was 3/4 shifts and 4/3 shift looked a little clunky. Try some 3/2 and tell me its smooth or intuitive. My note was something other than professional drivers who make heal/toe sound like auto-blip. Again go watch some amateur driver video's. THE BIG QUESTION have you driven a MGW car, if not then I cast doubt your ability to compare.

    I just looked back and see that you have used a MGW so I take that back.

    Lets talk about time saved on repeated tasks. My experience comes from competitive shooting, both against the clock and man on man where shaving 1/4 of a second of matters. So how many shifts in average lap even if its just 4 and you save 1/4 on each one that comes to one second. Now are really going try and say the factory shifter is a fast as the MGW?

    If fact I had no idea how good our tranny is until I went MGW
     
  18. DrumReaper

    DrumReaper Well-Known Member

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    #38 DrumReaper, Aug 7, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
    So.......... I see you took that as a slap. Sad man. But just as the OP here posted a simple solution to a problem, so did I. You are quick to +1 his efforts while you slapped my objective findings of the G-brace around, despite multiple people backing me up - all the while never having experienced a G-brace on your own ride.

    Now, here I am again asking to give you a penny for your thoughts but instead of either confirming or denying you wanna poke me with a hate stick. Smh. :headbonk:
     
  19. Zombo

    Zombo befejezett

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    Thanks for another comprehensive post Epiphany! I would like to add that, in that first video, the rear mount shown (with the 2 pins) appears significantly stiffer then the actual OEM mount, which acts as a support as well as a vibration isolator. In the OEM shifter, when you load it up side to side, the entire arm deflects (twists) a good amount, which is not seen in the video. This deflection reduces the precision of the shifter; I suspect this will get worse over time as the front rubber bushing and rear mount wears.
     
  20. J_Maher_AMG

    J_Maher_AMG Well-Known Member

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    Great post and appreciate the detailed breakdown sir.

    Maybe I'll change my approach regarding my opinions of the stock shifter in my discussion here with you. I fully understand the points you have made and the points in which you feel the OEM shifter assembly falls short from a mechanical design perspective that affects not only longevity, but precision and durability as well.

    My question then to you, would be what OEM shifter design that does not belong in a $100K Porsche are up to your standards/satisfaction? Maybe I am incorrect in assuming Porsche doesn't cut corners as well? Are there any OEM's providing real, legitimately solid designs in regards to shifter assemblies that you know of?

    Perhaps there are, I am completely unaware, but I feel like the odds are that the majority of OEM level assemblies out there are made with cost cutting and inherent weaknesses as seen in our setup. Especially considering manual sports cars are no longer a priority with how advancements are being made in autos and DCT's and the like, I can't imagine anyone other than Porsche having the outlook to design a truly "great" setup, though they could have their downfalls as well I don't know.

    I guess my point is, it is a Mustang after all, and the aftermarket certainly picks up in many areas that the OEM does not prioritize from the start. If someone is tracking the car and shifting hard I expect the pitfalls of the design to become ugly quickly after the miles rack up, especially after experiencing the shifters on the Track Attack cars, which IMO they DID feel horrible.

    For those driving the street, daily drivers and the such, those that aren't being abused, I imagine they will last quite a while before any issues begin to pop up. As I said, lots of users on here with over 20,000 miles and no mentioning of any shifter issues, so I believe that a large part of whether you will experience issues sooner rather than later largely depends on your use and treatment of the vehicle.
     
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