Selling GT350R for new Porsche 718 Spyder?

[JR369]

Thanks for posting this review- even though they've managed to cite obvious issues about the gearing being too tall, these guys are clowns and shouldn't be reviewing anything but riding lawnmowers for Lowes...lol.

They may be clowns. They look and act the part for sure. However, I thought the review of the gearbox was helpful under normal 90% of the time driving conditions.

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[oldbmwfan]

Thanks for the feedback, yes, I am well aware of the pros and cons of Porsche. I also acknowledge that the 911 GT3 is the closest comparison to the GT350R and there is a massive price gap between the two- testament to what we have. Every time I fire up my engine, I wonder if the motor is going to let go. This is coming from a guy who broke the vehicle in properly, checks his oil regularly and always goes through a judicious warm up ritual before I spin the motor up. To be clear, my car runs like a raped ape!

Sounds like you need to just get over yourself and drive it. That said, if you do get the Boxster, it'll be fun too. And if that's lower stress for you, do it. Letting the R age away on your garage floor does no one any good. It's a car; drive it or sell it to someone who will.

As for the other poster's comment about the Boxster being viewed as the "poor man's" Porsche, it's a shame some people buy things only to please others, rather than themselves. That's some massive insecurity.

Most Porsches have pretty tall gearing. But, the gears tend to be closely spaced, so once you're in the powerband you can stay there easily. It's just a quirk of the marque.

 

[THX 138]

I own variations of both cars... A 2016 GT350 and a 2002 Boxster S with a built 3.8 liter M96 engine. They're really apples & oranges... If you're only going to have one or the other, and you actually intend to drive the car, then you need to decide which type of car you prefer to drive: a high-horsepower, visceral muscle car that shines best on a racetrack and can keep up with a 911 GT3, or a relatively lightweight roadster with decent power and (I would argue) a more "connected" feel to the road. (And if it's the latter, is it worth the $25k+ difference to "upgrade" to that experience from what you have now?)

I wouldn't waste any time worrying about the Voodoo's engine reliability--that really shouldn't be the deciding factor here, IMHO. Buy an extended warranty and call it a day.

 

[Rusherific]

I frequently drive two lane country roads and mountain roads at a rapid pace where I will occasionally (just barely) spot and maneuver around rogue pot holes deep enough to cause serious damage.

Hey that's when you get to enjoy such world class chassis dynamics right?

In my younger years of sport bike riding you'd have to do the same with any rock bigger than a ping pong ball, it comes with the canyon carver territory!

To be fair there are options for wheels that are pretty darn close in terms of weight. I definitely made that a priority when looking for aftermarkets. Only like 2lbs off iirc which shouldn't be noticeable. If it would give you peace of mind while driving I'd say well worth a few grand for some wheels you don't mind beating up on that mostly preserve the R's dynamics.

If you hit a deep pothole at speed though you're gonna be replacing a lot more than a wheel with an R's ride height...

 

[Montoya]

I own variations of both cars... A 2016 GT350 and a 2002 Boxster S with a built 3.8 liter M96 engine. They're really apples & oranges... If you're only going to have one or the other, and you actually intend to drive the car, then you need to decide which type of car you prefer to drive: a high-horsepower, visceral muscle car that shines best on a racetrack and can keep up with a 911 GT3, or a relatively lightweight roadster with decent power and (I would argue) a more "connected" feel to the road. (And if it's the latter, is it worth the $25k+ difference to "upgrade" to that experience from what you have now?)

I wouldn't waste any time worrying about the Voodoo's engine reliability--that really shouldn't be the deciding factor here, IMHO. Buy an extended warranty and call it a day.

Well said. I’m fortunate to own a ‘18 GT3 manual and a GT350R so I make the comparison between a Porsche GT car and the Shelby quite often. If I had to pick only one then it would be the GT3, but I would miss the GT350R. So changing up to a Porsche will be nice but I’m not sure it will make you forget the GT350R. If I were to have to pick one car to do it all, it would be neither, it would be my old Grand Sport C7 manual. Maybe that should be in your mix...it’s one of the few cars I really miss who’s memory hasn’t been erased by the cars that replaced it.

 

[Rusherific]

I own variations of both cars... A 2016 GT350 and a 2002 Boxster S with a built 3.8 liter M96 engine. They're really apples & oranges... If you're only going to have one or the other, and you actually intend to drive the car, then you need to decide which type of car you prefer to drive: a high-horsepower, visceral muscle car that shines best on a racetrack and can keep up with a 911 GT3, or a relatively lightweight roadster with decent power and (I would argue) a more "connected" feel to the road. (And if it's the latter, is it worth the $25k+ difference to "upgrade" to that experience from what you have now?)

I wouldn't waste any time worrying about the Voodoo's engine reliability--that really shouldn't be the deciding factor here, IMHO. Buy an extended warranty and call it a day.

Yes I think this is the long and short of it. The 718 is almost certainly a better, or at least more useable street car in reality. I personally am already realizing that in only 1.4k miles I've pretty much had all the fun I can have with my R around town without going straight to jail. So it's to the track for me next year. Even on backroads, coming from a guy who used to tear them up on bikes--it's too insane, it's just absolutely insane. I *catch up to* and get stuck behind bikes in this car. The R needs to be rung out to have any fun with it, and so now you're doing 93mph in *2nd gear*. That's just...crazy. I love it to bits but I can see being able to toss the Porsche around and actually have fun in it in a more....reasonable way.

 

[honeybadger]

Ask @honeybadger how much it costs to do a refresh. Im prepared to do exactly that. The warranty is for a catastrophic failire.

Good point...I'll ask him.

Refreshes are pretty pricey with this beast, but they really all are on a modern DOHC Ford engine. FWIW, an OEM-level refresh is actually quite economical in the grand scheme of things - around $4k IIRC. The challenge with the Voodoo is finding someone competent to work on it that doesn't do specialty work (like my race engine builder).

That said, the most expensive and critical part to this motor, the block, is cross-shared with another car - the GT500. So that should be easy to get for a very long time. I have no doubt Ford will be selling the gen3 5.2 block for many years to come.

Honestly brother, you have so little reason to not just send it and enjoy the car. It "might" be worth something someday, but that will be many, many years in the future. Hell, the rarest Boss 302s, Cobra Rs, etc. don't fetch more than original sticker and they have many years on you. Even if they did, 10-30k miles isn't going to make or break it.

As far as engine reliability - I think you're overthinking it. There's no magic way to treat, warm up, or break in this engine. It's not fragile. It's also not a race engine. It's an eccentric Coyote that's had some higher-than-average part failures. But it's still based on one of the most common engines in the world and easy to work, find parts, etc. Enjoy it!

 

[bauern]

^^^ This.
Hell, you could build one with any gen Coyote block.

 

[stanglife]

Also when we talk about reliability...Ford isn't perfect but also consider... It's hard to find any Porsche that's a generation old in which some major risk or expensive pending breakdown hasn't become common knowledge....and it costs a lot more *usually* to repair these if out of warranty...which to me, is what seems to happen for Porsche a lot.

IMO - the 350 is pretty on par, performance and enjoyability wise with GT3s *until this next one lands. Fit and finish will never be a Ford thing, unfortunately, so for me, that's what you pay for in a Porsche. You can read all over the Porsche forums where owners say something nice about a 350R but go on to say that it's somehow worlds apart from their GT3s... Well I kinda agree - the 350R is "not" a GT3 but I think most of those guys refuse to acknowledge how small the gap actually is (if you ignore things like fit/finish and frankly, the entire dealer/buying experience).


In closing - my case for keeping the 350R... You are going from a unique, top-tier model from one brand to a meh model of another brand. If you leave a 350R, I can not see doing it for anything less than a GT3. 997 is very unique and depreciation shouldnt murder you there.

 

[honeybadger]

Also when we talk about reliability...Ford isn't perfect but also consider... It's hard to find any Porsche that's a generation old in which some major risk or expensive pending breakdown hasn't become common knowledge....and it costs a lot more *usually* to repair these if out of warranty...which to me, is what seems to happen for Porsche a lot.

IMO - the 350 is pretty on par, performance and enjoyability wise with GT3s *until this next one lands. Fit and finish will never be a Ford thing, unfortunately, so for me, that's what you pay for in a Porsche. You can read all over the Porsche forums where owners say something nice about a 350R but go on to say that it's somehow worlds apart from their GT3s... Well I kinda agree - the 350R is "not" a GT3 but I think most of those guys refuse to acknowledge how small the gap actually is (if you ignore things like fit/finish and frankly, the entire dealer/buying experience).


In closing - my case for keeping the 350R... You are going from a unique, top-tier model from one brand to a meh model of another brand. If you leave a 350R, I can not see doing it for anything less than a GT3. 997 is very unique and depreciation shouldnt murder you there.

Are folks having issues with the 991.1/2 GT3s? Maybe they're not old enough to know, though. I do agree with your sentiment above. A 718 would be a fun car, but definitely missing a lot of the specialty. I've driven a 991.1 GT3 and it was a much more special and unique car. Completely unfair how good they are the track in stock form. Almost too good.

 

[cib24]

Hello all,

I am considering taking the plunge for the new Porsche 718 Spyder and was hoping someone could talk me out of the purchase. Yes, I realize our cars are mega special and it's comparing an apple to an orange but I've owned a few Porsches in the past and they're very special cars as well.

To be honest, I just don't have a lot of faith in the motor running/ performing well past the 30,000 mile mark. It's such a special engine and to that point, race engines require a lot of TLC along the way. With that said, I have never tracked her (just 1600 miles) nor will I ever track her but I can never truly enjoy driving her on the street due to the carbon fiber wheels getting damaged etc.

I also have chassis #LR001 which is a great blessing but also a curse since I refuse to put many miles on her. So I have a fantastic vehicle sitting in my garage not truly being driven or appreciated the way she should be.

I thought about just purchasing an extended powertrain warranty for 8/125k and driving the piss out of her but then figured in 7 or 8 eight years, their probably won't be any more new Vodoo engines available to swap out.

Please refrain from peppering me. This is such a hard decision folks. She is the best car I've ever owned...

How is it the best car when you've barely done the break in miles on it?

 

[Rusherific]

Are folks having issues with the 991.1/2 GT3s? Maybe they're not old enough to know, though. I do agree with your sentiment above. A 718 would be a fun car, but definitely missing a lot of the specialty. I've driven a 991.1 GT3 and it was a much more special and unique car. Completely unfair how good they are the track in stock form. Almost too good.

I mean that's the problem, the point of the GT350R is GT3 specialness for less than half the price of even a used one. Anything you're gonna cross shop it with cost-wise is kinda meh, at least in my opinion. Sure there are options now that perform as well or even better but that's not everything.

 

[MNGT350]

I do think a low miles, well cared for GT350R will be a desirable car, but it's years away from prices that are investment level.

Modern performance cars, if not tracked, are sort of a joke for regular roads in the US. If you push the car at all to it's abilities, you are either going to jail or a ditch. It's sort of sad when I think about it, how little my 500+ horsepower track monster gets to stretch its legs in normal driving. How much rowing through the gears, approaching redline, etc.? none, really off the track. Highway on ramps provide a brief taste, but it's more of a tease than anything.

I think that's why the exhaust is mentioned so often. You can acutally hear the car, even at lower RPMs, in normal driving, and it's a wonderful note. Steering feel, feedback, noise, vibration, looks, history. That's why the GT350 is still worth it, to me, for regular driving.

Same issues with the Porsche and normal driving, obviously, and I think the noise, vibration, and feedback (the "visceralness" ) are a downgrade if you switch.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Refreshes are pretty pricey with this beast, but they really all are on a modern DOHC Ford engine. FWIW, an OEM-level refresh is actually quite economical in the grand scheme of things - around $4k IIRC. The challenge with the Voodoo is finding someone competent to work on it that doesn't do specialty work (like my race engine builder).

That said, the most expensive and critical part to this motor, the block, is cross-shared with another car - the GT500. So that should be easy to get for a very long time. I have no doubt Ford will be selling the gen3 5.2 block for many years to come.

Honestly brother, you have so little reason to not just send it and enjoy the car. It "might" be worth something someday, but that will be many, many years in the future. Hell, the rarest Boss 302s, Cobra Rs, etc. don't fetch more than original sticker and they have many years on you. Even if they did, 10-30k miles isn't going to make or break it.

As far as engine reliability - I think you're overthinking it. There's no magic way to treat, warm up, or break in this engine. It's not fragile. It's also not a race engine. It's an eccentric Coyote that's had some higher-than-average part failures. But it's still based on one of the most common engines in the world and easy to work, find parts, etc. Enjoy it!

Thanks for your feedback as I consider you to be a pioneer when it comes to fully enjoying, tracking and rebuilding your engines when required. I've made a lot of concessions with her, overlooking a lot of build quality issues but when the smoke clears, no other car has ever made my heart race like this one. Not to mention the fact that I enjoy cruising around at 4,000 rpms almost as much as taking a set of switchbacks at 7,000 rpms at breakneck speeds. Hell, my superbike doesn't even top it.... Good point regarding the GT500 block- yet another reason I went for the 2020.

TBC...

 

[oldbmwfan]

I do think a low miles, well cared for GT350R will be a desirable car, but it's years away from prices that are investment level.

Modern performance cars, if not tracked, are sort of a joke for regular roads in the US. If you push the car at all to it's abilities, you are either going to jail or a ditch. It's sort of sad when I think about it, how little my 500+ horsepower track monster gets to stretch its legs in normal driving. How much rowing through the gears, approaching redline, etc.? none, really off the track. Highway on ramps provide a brief taste, but it's more of a tease than anything.

I think that's why the exhaust is mentioned so often. You can acutally hear the car, even at lower RPMs, in normal driving, and it's a wonderful note. Steering feel, feedback, noise, vibration, looks, history. That's why the GT350 is still worth it, to me, for regular driving.

Same issues with the Porsche and normal driving, obviously, and I think the noise, vibration, and feedback (the "visceralness" ) are a downgrade if you switch.

This is why I like my "slow" cars a lot, and drive them a lot more. The Fiesta ST and the 993 can be pushed around on the road without people thinking you're some sort of terror. Some of the most fun I've ever had in street driving was with my old Mk2 VW GTI ... 100 HP, ~2200 lbs, and 175mm tires. Could drive it like you were on a track at all times and no one would even know.

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