SCT Must stop selling tuners after EPA...

Discussion in 'General Automotive Topics (non 6th Gen Mustang)' started by Spykexx, Sep 25, 2018.

  1. aleccolin

    aleccolin Well-Known Member

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    This isn't just going to affect the handsets and preloaded software, it'll probably impact the software licensed to dyno tuners across the country. Maybe not immediately, but eventually.
     
  2. cnycomp

    cnycomp Well-Known Member

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    People will find a way around this, one way or the other. Its kind of ridiculous that the big EPA is wasting their time going after such a small group of people who want to modify and enjoy their cars. Really, we are a tiny fraction of the cars that are on the road everyday.

    FROM WIKIPEDIA= Overall, there were an estimated 263.6 millionregistered vehicles in the United States in 2015, most of which were passenger vehicles. This number, along with the average age of vehicles, has increased steadily since 1960
     
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  3. Nuked

    Nuked Well-Known Member

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    https://www.justice.gov/enrd/consent-decree/file/1095996/download

    That is the settlement document, a lot of good details in it. Particuarly the software aspect...

    “Custom Tuning Software” means any software application developed and licensed by Defendants that enables Defendants and their customers to create Calibrations to be loaded into Electronic Control Unit(s);

    Customer Verification Program for Users of Custom Tuning Software 30. Since certain of the software parameters contained in Defendants’ Custom Tuning Software enable users to modify engine settings developed by OEMs and certified by EPA and CARB, Defendants shall commence a customer verification program for all customers of their Custom Tuning Software. The customer verification process must require each potential customer of Defendants’ Custom Tuning Software to provide information about their intended use of the Custom Tuning Software. Unless a potential customer provides written confirmation to Defendants that they will use the software solely to develop legitimate products that do not bypass, defeat, or render inoperative a vehicle’s emission control system (hereinafter referred to in this Section as “Legitimate Uses”), Defendants shall not sell the Custom Tuning Software, provide updates, or grant license applications to the potential customer. Examples of nonlegitimate uses may include using Defendants’ Custom Tuning Software to make modifications to vehicles regulated by EPA such as permanently disabling rear oxygen sensors to enable the removal of catalytic converters, permanently disabling EGR, and modifying, bypassing, and/or disabling other Elements of Design certified by OEMs such as engine fueling and airflow, without a reasonable basis that the modification does not adversely affect emissions performance (hereinafter referred to as “Non-Legitimate Uses”). Defendants must determine which access level of functionality of the software, if any, is appropriate to sell to the customer based on its intended use(s) of the software parameters.

     
  4. thehunterooo

    thehunterooo Well-Known Member

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    Should have spent money lobbying :)
     
  5. SJulian10mm

    SJulian10mm Well-Known Member

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    California influances what happens in the rest of the country.
     
  6. Nuked

    Nuked Well-Known Member

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    Yup and CARB just busted SCT back in 2016.
     
  7. Ebm

    Ebm Well-Known Member

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    You realize you can just pay someone off to inspect your car right? How do you think people with illegal tint get by?

    I'm not saying I do this, but some people do. Probably against the forum rules to talk about cheating emissions too.
     
  8. SiMuL

    SiMuL .wise selectah.

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    You make it sound like a tuner can tune out harmful emissions without catalytic converters on the car. I hope you know this is impossible. I'd hate for someone who didn't know better to mistake this information.
     
  9. Grimace427

    Grimace427 Well-Known Member

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    We had someone try this at our shop, most people don't realize that inspection stations are regularly checked by the state police and ours is no exception. When the disgruntled customer threatened to call the cops when we failed him for illegal headlights we called the trooper ourselves and things were cleared up pretty quick.
     
  10. Ebm

    Ebm Well-Known Member

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    Yeah lol, you have to go to the real shady inspection stations :crazy:
     
  11. Face

    Face Well-Known Member

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    For those who are interested: Derive Email Blasted this out to a lot of vendors this week...

    "
    SCT_email_header.jpg?t=1537917864643&width=600&name=SCT_email_header.jpg

    fb_image.png?t=1537917864643&width=20&name=fb_image.png instagram_image.png?t=1537917864643&width=20&name=instagram_image.png TW_Gray@0%20(1).png?t=1537917864643&width=20&name=TW_Gray@0%20(1).png YT_gray.png?t=1537917864643&width=20&name=YT_gray.png

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    Today, Derive Systems announces reaching an agreement with EPA to establish and comply with automotive aftermarket regulations.

    The EPA agreement is very positive for our business. With this agreement in place, Derive has established itself as the only federally-compliant player in the tuning industry. Every company in the aftermarket will be held to the same standard as Derive.

    Under the agreement, we will make investments to demonstrate environmental leadership in the automotive aftermarket industry.These include: additional emissions tests of our preloaded calibrations on new and past model year applications, developing additional training and certification programs for our custom tuning dealers, continuing to make and sell emissions compliant devices, and further investing in our policy compliance initiatives.

    Please take note that:

    • Every product we sell today is legal. We are permitted to, and will continue selling, our existing tuners and Advantage software.
    • There is no need for resellers or consumers to return or swap out anything on shelves today, nor is a recall required.
    • For users of our Advantage custom tuning software, we are forming our certification and training program now, and will share those details directly with you once we’re finished.
    Derive Systems, SCT, and Bully Dog remain leaders in the automotive aftermarket and will continue to provide the most advanced technology to our enthusiast consumers, dealers, and resellers.

    Read our press release here.

    Q: Why did Derive settle?

    A: Collaborating with EPA on a settlement allows us to provide market-leading tuners and creates certainty for our customers.

    · Customers continue to expect innovation and results, but no customer wants to buy regulatory uncertainty or an EPA enforcement action.

    · Unlike our competitors, we have a clear path forward for our products to enter and thrive in the market with EPA’s approval.

    Q: Why is Derive paying a penalty?

    A: Derive was formed only a few years ago from the purchases of two tuning companies, SCT and Bully Dog.

    · Our new company’s management discovered legacy compliance issues with some Bully Dog products that were hidden during the transaction.

    · We expect this settlement to wipe the slate clean with EPA on these legacy issues.

    · We will continue to pursue the former owners of Bully Dog and others who committed fraud and other wrongdoing as part of our purchase.

    Q: Did Derive sell defeat devices?

    A: No, Derive did not sell defeat devices.

    · Derive bought Bully Dog and SCT only a few years ago. After the transaction, we discovered legacy compliance issues, particularly on the Bully Dog side. We continue to pursue claims arising from that transaction.

    · In the meantime, Derive entered into this agreement to provide a clear and certain path to continue selling tuners and custom software in partnership with EPA.

    Q: How did EPA come up with the 363,000 figure for tuner sales?

    A: That question is best put to EPA. Our focus is on the fact that the settlement provides a clear path to continue selling our tuner and custom tuning software products and to continue to introduce those products to market. No other company has this kind of partnership with EPA, which allows to continue providing market-leading performance tuners and custom software, while avoiding regulatory and enforcement uncertainty for our customers.

    Q: The settlement states that the penalty is based on Derive’s financial condition [or a limited ability to pay]. Is the company in financial trouble?

    A: No, the settlement reflects the fact that Derive is committing a substantial amount to building out its partnership with EPA in this settlement.

    Q: Does the settlement require Derive to recall any tuners from its customers or stop selling any tuners?

    A: No, it does not. Unlike past EPA tuning settlements, there are no recall terms in the settlement for our products in the market. We are required to test tuners going forward. If the testing reveals issues, we will deal with those issues in an appropriate manner, in consultation with EPA.

    Q: Does the settlement require Derive to stop selling custom software?

    A: No, it does not. Our settlement partnership with EPA requires us to provide customer training and certification that encourages the legitimate use of our custom tuning software.

    Q: Will the settlement require Derive to change its marketing practices or reseller agreements for tuners?

    A: From a customer perspective, there will be little change. Derive was not marketing any illegitimate uses of its products before the settlement. And we already have a vigorous compliance program to avoid customer abuse of our products. The settlement memorializes what are already industry best practices.

    If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact your Account Manager. For press inquiries, please contact [email protected]

    Thank you for your continued support.


    sct_logo.png?t=1537917864643&width=100&name=sct_logo.png

    4150 Church St. | Suite 1024 | Sanford, FL 33227
    Contact us: 940-783-9914 or Visit us online: SCTFlash.com


    © 2018 Derive Systems®. All rights reserved. GTX®, BDX®, X4®, LivewireTS®, Bully Dog GT®, powered by DERIVE™, SCT PERFORMANCE®, BULLY DOG® and the SCT ®and Bully Dog logo® are trademarks or registered trademarks of Derive Systems.

    SCT Performance 4150 CHURCH ST. Suite 1024 SANFORD Florida 32771 United States

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  12. Blue_Thunder

    Blue_Thunder Well-Known Member

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    You realize that is, quite literally, IMPOSSIBLE to do anymore, don't you?

    Let me tell you how it works now:

    In Texas, the car is plugged into an inspection station via OBDII. That station reads the car and reports the data straight to the DMV. There is NO TECHNICIAN INPUT whatsoever in the process. The technician can not falsify the data.

    This was changed a couple of years back due to those under-the-table inspection dealings. You can not buy your way around it anymore, and there is no bypass. Period.

    Illegal tint would be detected on the visual inspection, which is still done. BUT the emissions systems check is 100% automated and can not be falsified. It is tied to the VIN number of the car being inspected. I set up this system for a list of GM dealerships about 4 years ago and it is totally fail proof.

    So, like I said, you WILL fail emissions testing with the rear 02's turned off.

    Some additional info:

    https://www.dps.texas.gov/rsd/vi/Misc/faq/faq_obdii.htm#SystemsChecked
     
  13. Ebm

    Ebm Well-Known Member

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    People with Bully Dog tuners, aka asshats that blow black smoke everywhere in their lifted trucks





    You are technically correct. You WILL fail emissions testing with the rear 02s turned off. But passing emissions isn't hard. Tuners can hard code certain emissions requirements to pass emissions testing. How do you think cars with no cats pass emissions? Trust me, I work with computers all day. They aren't that hard to fool.
     
  14. Blue_Thunder

    Blue_Thunder Well-Known Member

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    I have a Masters Degree in Computer Science and Information Systems and held a top-level position for General Motors. I know exactly how these systems work. If you think you're going to slap some code on a tuner and bypass it, you're dead wrong. It does not work that way.

    Computers are not hard to fool. However, this is different. BUT...don't take my word for it.

    You're allowed 1 system to be set to "Not Ready". If you have no cats, then you want your Catalyst system to be that system. However, that means your 02's, and likely your 02 heaters and possibly your Evap, are going to fail.

    I love how guys act like it's so easy to get past emissions tests. Then you see their thread "Can't pass inspection - HELP!!!!" when the time comes.
     
  15. Dusten

    Dusten Well-Known Member

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    My truck, with zero cats, passed washington emissions.
    Washington allows for 1 emissions system to show as not ready(rear o2's).
    Washington emission standards for tailpipe emissions are identical to california.

    Look, I've been playing the tuned vehicle game for almost 20 years. I know how this shit works.
     
  16. Ebm

    Ebm Well-Known Member

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    This isn't a justification thread, no need to tout your qualifications lol. But I'm happy for you that you're so well educated. Thinking that you know more than someone because you held a high position at a company or because you have multiple degrees? Those are the guys I don't trust the most. But I digress, I know it's possible because I've seen cars pass with no cats and a tune. Not a problem. I can't legally say who owned those cars because it's against forum rules to partake in cheating emissions.
     
  17. Grimace427

    Grimace427 Well-Known Member

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    I would imagine the shady stations being investigated even more often.
     
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  18. Dr. Norts

    Dr. Norts Well-Known Member

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    As of April 2019 we don't have emission testing anymore up here in Ontario, Canada

    Just move up here ;)
     
  19. SiMuL

    SiMuL .wise selectah.

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    That's because your tuner disabled the rear o2, as should be done with no cats. It sounded like your original point was arguing that you didn't need to disable the rear o2's. If that wasn't what you meant, disregard my reply. I've been in this game a good while, myself! :)
     
  20. Dusten

    Dusten Well-Known Member

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    You said disabling them was lazy. I said in certain cases its the best option, as opposed to MIL's.
    I then stated you can pass emissions with them off, and with no cats. If the tune is good. You can also have your tuner do an emissions tune that leans the vehicle out and run it just for testing. We do this a lot with diesels to get them to pass opacity tests.
     
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