Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

[Gregs24]

UK has recorded it's highest ever number of cases yesterday and the direction of travel is UP rapidly. Everything suspected about 'omicron' transmissibility is proving to be true. Hospitalisations still stable, but likely to increase in about 10 days time - hopefully not as quickly!

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[Orange devil]

UK has recorded it's highest ever number of cases yesterday and the direction of travel is UP rapidly. Everything suspected about 'omicron' transmissibility is proving to be true. Hospitalisations still stable, but likely to increase in about 10 days time - hopefully not as quickly!

Is this from Vaccinated persons or non vaccinated?

 

[Orange devil]

Well, that would be [at least] his 4th ...

Are you talking about me ? Hope not

 

[sk47]

Hybrid Immunity and 3 Doses Seem to Be Best Against Omicron (healthline.com)

• Data and real-world evidence so far shows that vaccine-induced immunity is more robust than infection-acquired natural immunity in all coronavirus variants so far.
• However, preliminary research suggests hybrid immunity in people who previously had COVID-19 and were later vaccinated may have a higher concentration of antibodies against Omicron.
• Pfizer has also released data confirming that a booster dose produces a similar and better antibody response than two doses alone.

Three very important conclusions.

Of course van man will ignore this even though the extract below completely confirms he is WRONG. I provide data - he just 'wonders'

Had COVID? 1 in 5 won't get antibodies - YouTube - really good explanation and emphasis of why vaccination after natural infection is so important.

Antibodies from COVID-19 infection are inconsistent
Several studiesTrusted Source have shown that the immune response to COVID-19 infection varies greatly between individuals.

A study found that about a third of people who had COVID-19 do not develop antibodies.

A Chinese studyTrusted Source also found that, out of 175 COVID-19 patients, 30 percent developed neutralizing antibody titers of less than 500, while 10 patients produced antibodies were under the detectable limit.

Hello; Two points to be made about this post. First is in order to recover from an infection on your own, it is the persons immune system which must do the work. Let me be clearer about the "on your own" part. This is when an infected person does not have an antiviral medication or some similar medication which kills virus itself and recovers naturally.
Even the infected who wound up in treatment early in the outbreak were only getting help to keep them going. No vaccine or clinical medications yet. The treatments were supporting the body while the immune system did the work of stopping the virus. That they had to have drastic help was a clue they had a compromised immune system or some serious secondary health issue. Old age and obesity are the two most often mentioned, but there are other things which do screw up an immune system. I will limit the term naturally immune to those who recover from the covid infection without outside help for this thread discussion.

Second point starts with how the mRNA shots work. The shots are not anti-viral. The shots do not kill any virus on their own. The shots are not like anti-biotics which can and do kill targeted bacteria.
What do the shots do when injected? The shots only trigger the persons immune system to start working. Much in the way a traditional vaccine will trigger and immune response. The older style vaccines used a different sort of trigger being a big difference. The old vaccines often used an actual virus as the trigger. The trick was to "disable" the virus so it still kept the protein structures for the immune system to recognize but could not actually infect.

Using advances from discoveries about DNA and RNA the labs can make copies of DNA and RNA strands. For example, you send a sample of your DNA to a lab. There will not be enough to work with in the sample. The labs can make huge numbers of copies of that DNA until enough material is had to be used in whatever work is being done. Same for RNA.

Once the labs had the gene sequence of the Covid19 virus they decided to make huge numbers of copies of the instructions (mRNA) for one part of the virus. They picked instructions for building only a small portion of the virus. A spike protein of the virus to copy.

(Side note- They did not use the very exact instructions for building the natural spike protein. My reading suggested they added some made-up instructions bits to the actual natural instructions. In other words, they modified the way the spike protein will be built slightly.)
(Second side note- They also modified the codons found in the assembly instructions. The codons are bits of RNA that tell the assembly factory in a cell to stop making a protein. My reading suggests the codons were changed so that a cell makes many more protein copies than a cell normally would.)

Once they had the spike protein portion of mRNA instructions "written" to their target specs they had to find a way to get the mRNA instructions past the cell membrane (cell wall). This is a clever thing in itself. Cell walls have fat layers (lipids) so they wrapped the mRNA instructions in some fats (lipids) that could pass the cell wall. Finally, to the meat of the post.

Once the shot (vaccine) mRNA is inside a cell it is treated just like the normal mRNA each of our body cells uses every minute of the day. The shot mRNA is carried to the part of the cell which actually builds a protein. The cell factory called ribosomes I believe. The cell factory "reads" the instructions and starts building large numbers of virus protein spikes according to the instructions in the shot mRNA. This is the point where the vaccine shot's role in the process stops entirely. The shots are done, finished once the instructions are delivered.

At some point the body cell releases all those copies of that spike protein. Not clear to me if the cell has to die at this point or just releases the protein same as it would any other protein. Either way the virus spike copies get out and soon are picked up as intruders by the immune system. Then the immune reaction starts because of the presence of those invader spike proteins. The immune system goes thru a sequence of first making poorly suited circulating antibodies quickly. Then, over weeks making very much better suited and more permanent antibodies along with other immune products and cells tailored to fight that specific invader.

Now to a natural infection by an actual virus. Don't worry this part will be much shorter. That is because it is the exact same process. The actual virus is recognized as an invader. There are some differences to be sure. One is the immune system builds antibodies for all of the various protein assemblies of the actual virus, including all the spike proteins. The immune system process is the same for the actual infection as for the shots.
The bad part of an actual infection is the virus does indeed kill off body cells when it invades our body. There will be lots of dead cell parts and dead cells. This is part of what makes us sick. If we get too many viruses as an initial exposure there can be huge numbers of cells invaded and killed resulting in a bad illness because it takes time for the immune system to get up to speed. Let me be clear I am not suggestion anyone should try to be infected on purpose.

My stance has been the naturally recovered from an infection have the same or better immunity as the shot immunity. The immune reaction happens the same way in both a shot vaccine as in an infection. The actual infection will have the entire assembly of virus proteins to build a lasting and robust immune response from.

From my reading the advantage of the shots is the trick used to cause the body cells to make extra amounts of spike protein copies at the start. These large numbers of spike protein copies trigger a large number of the first series of inefficient circulating antibodies to be made. An advantage if you are exposed to the real virus within weeks after the shots. After those first weeks the inefficient circulating antibodies are gradually replaced with better suited but fewer in number antibodies for longer term immunity.

From my reading the booster shots currently are formulated exactly the same as the shots form about a year ago. If I get a booster the action will be another flood of those inefficient circulating antibodies for a while. I took the shots last March. By now my immune system has made the much better suited immune cells and has them in place tailored to the spike protein copies in the formula of the first vaccine shots.

I have written this sort of thing in several posts and did include links to back up my comments. This is a summary to be sure and some details are left out to make it shorter. (Yeah, it is shortened) I can find the links and will respond if any wish to have a decent conversation. We will likely have to talk around the name calling and put downs from the crew.

 

[GT Pony]

Pfizer's CEO just stated in a video no less that the shots and boosters do nothing with the new Acmecon.
But believe their "pill" will work with all ovid types.
This was reported world wide 12-13-2021.

What is the source of this info - got a link?

This info about the Pfizer boister has been all over the place lately.

Read this:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/12/isr...booster-protects-against-omicron-variant.html

 

[jtmat]

Well, that would be [at least] his 4th ...

Yea he has resorted to sending me private messages! <insert fav MOD here>, it won't be long now... Ha ha ha...

Anyway, only good news is the new variant is not that deadly. Will be interesting to see how it impacts hospitals.

Some of the latest comments in this thread are interesting. One about "living in fear"... yea, that is what bosses said in KY when the hurricane was coming. Told employees they would be fired if they leave. Now people are dead.

Employee: Hurricane is coming.
Boss: If you leave, we'll fire you. Stop living in fear!!!

"Living in fear" is a political buzzword so...

 

[Burkey]

Yea he has resorted to sending me private messages! <insert fav MOD here>, it won't be long now... Ha ha ha...

Anyway, only good news is the new variant is not that deadly. Will be interesting to see how it impacts hospitals.

Some of the latest comments in this thread are interesting. One about "living in fear"... yea, that is what bosses said in KY when the hurricane was coming. Told employees they would be fired if they leave. Now people are dead.

Employee: Hurricane is coming.
Boss: If you leave, we'll fire you. Stop living in fear!!!

"Living in fear" is a political buzzword so...

It’s an interesting one.

On the one hand, you have people making their own risk assessment based on the available evidence. Eg. Tornado approaching, likelihood of being caught up in it vs not

Meanwhile, another group of people who quite literally live in fear of a theoretical deity, continue to tell others to stop living in fear of things that demonstrably exist.

Comment not directed at any of the participants here, just an observation.

 

[jtmat]

It’s an interesting one.

On the one hand, you have people making their own risk assessment based on the available evidence. Eg. Tornado approaching, likelihood of being caught up in it vs not

Meanwhile, another group of people who quite literally live in fear of a theoretical deity, continue to tell others to stop living in fear of things that demonstrably exist.

Comment not directed at any of the participants here, just an observation.

I don't care what people believe in... but the "living in fear" is part of a larger message. It is why ICUs are staying near capacity in some places. The repeated message of "booster won't keep you from getting covid". Stupid people believe that message.

It makes some hesitate... then their families pay the price when they get sick and/or die. I've personally seen it. Sad part is many pushing these messages are vaccinated... they are here looking for attention.

 

[Burkey]

I don't care what people believe in... but the "living in fear" is part of a larger message. It is why ICUs are staying near capacity in some places. The repeated message of "booster won't keep you from getting covid". Stupid people believe that message.

It makes some hesitate... then their families pay the price when they get sick and/or die. I've personally seen it. Sad part is many pushing these messages are vaccinated... they are here looking for attention.

I agree 100%.
Don’t care what they believe.
I just find it interesting that the disconnect occurs.

 

[GT Pony]

I don't care what people believe in... but the "living in fear" is part of a larger message. It is why ICUs are staying near capacity in some places. The repeated message of "booster won't keep you from getting covid". Stupid people believe that message.

It makes some hesitate... then their families pay the price when they get sick and/or die. I've personally seen it. Sad part is many pushing these messages are vaccinated... they are here looking for attention.

We have a couple of those vaccinated anti-vaxxers here.

 

[GT Pony]

I agree 100%.
Don’t care what they believe.
I just find it interesting that the disconnect occurs.

Most likely caused by disconnected brain synapses junctions.

 

[GT Pony]

Hello; Two points to be made about this post. First is in order to recover from an infection on your own, it is the persons immune system which must do the work. Let me be clearer about the "on your own" part. This is when an infected person does not have an antiviral medication or some similar medication which kills virus itself and recovers naturally.
Even the infected who wound up in treatment early in the outbreak were only getting help to keep them going. No vaccine or clinical medications yet. The treatments were supporting the body while the immune system did the work of stopping the virus. That they had to have drastic help was a clue they had a compromised immune system or some serious secondary health issue. Old age and obesity are the two most often mentioned, but there are other things which do screw up an immune system. I will limit the term naturally immune to those who recover from the covid infection without outside help for this thread discussion.

Second point starts with how the mRNA shots work. The shots are not anti-viral. The shots do not kill any virus on their own. The shots are not like anti-biotics which can and do kill targeted bacteria.
What do the shots do when injected? The shots only trigger the persons immune system to start working. Much in the way a traditional vaccine will trigger and immune response. The older style vaccines used a different sort of trigger being a big difference. The old vaccines often used an actual virus as the trigger. The trick was to "disable" the virus so it still kept the protein structures for the immune system to recognize but could not actually infect.

Using advances from discoveries about DNA and RNA the labs can make copies of DNA and RNA strands. For example, you send a sample of your DNA to a lab. There will not be enough to work with in the sample. The labs can make huge numbers of copies of that DNA until enough material is had to be used in whatever work is being done. Same for RNA.

Once the labs had the gene sequence of the Covid19 virus they decided to make huge numbers of copies of the instructions (mRNA) for one part of the virus. They picked instructions for building only a small portion of the virus. A spike protein of the virus to copy.

(Side note- They did not use the very exact instructions for building the natural spike protein. My reading suggested they added some made-up instructions bits to the actual natural instructions. In other words, they modified the way the spike protein will be built slightly.)
(Second side note- They also modified the codons found in the assembly instructions. The codons are bits of RNA that tell the assembly factory in a cell to stop making a protein. My reading suggests the codons were changed so that a cell makes many more protein copies than a cell normally would.)

Once they had the spike protein portion of mRNA instructions "written" to their target specs they had to find a way to get the mRNA instructions past the cell membrane (cell wall). This is a clever thing in itself. Cell walls have fat layers (lipids) so they wrapped the mRNA instructions in some fats (lipids) that could pass the cell wall. Finally, to the meat of the post.

Once the shot (vaccine) mRNA is inside a cell it is treated just like the normal mRNA each of our body cells uses every minute of the day. The shot mRNA is carried to the part of the cell which actually builds a protein. The cell factory called ribosomes I believe. The cell factory "reads" the instructions and starts building large numbers of virus protein spikes according to the instructions in the shot mRNA. This is the point where the vaccine shot's role in the process stops entirely. The shots are done, finished once the instructions are delivered.

At some point the body cell releases all those copies of that spike protein. Not clear to me if the cell has to die at this point or just releases the protein same as it would any other protein. Either way the virus spike copies get out and soon are picked up as intruders by the immune system. Then the immune reaction starts because of the presence of those invader spike proteins. The immune system goes thru a sequence of first making poorly suited circulating antibodies quickly. Then, over weeks making very much better suited and more permanent antibodies along with other immune products and cells tailored to fight that specific invader.

Now to a natural infection by an actual virus. Don't worry this part will be much shorter. That is because it is the exact same process. The actual virus is recognized as an invader. There are some differences to be sure. One is the immune system builds antibodies for all of the various protein assemblies of the actual virus, including all the spike proteins. The immune system process is the same for the actual infection as for the shots.
The bad part of an actual infection is the virus does indeed kill off body cells when it invades our body. There will be lots of dead cell parts and dead cells. This is part of what makes us sick. If we get too many viruses as an initial exposure there can be huge numbers of cells invaded and killed resulting in a bad illness because it takes time for the immune system to get up to speed. Let me be clear I am not suggestion anyone should try to be infected on purpose.

My stance has been the naturally recovered from an infection have the same or better immunity as the shot immunity. The immune reaction happens the same way in both a shot vaccine as in an infection. The actual infection will have the entire assembly of virus proteins to build a lasting and robust immune response from.

From my reading the advantage of the shots is the trick used to cause the body cells to make extra amounts of spike protein copies at the start. These large numbers of spike protein copies trigger a large number of the first series of inefficient circulating antibodies to be made. An advantage if you are exposed to the real virus within weeks after the shots. After those first weeks the inefficient circulating antibodies are gradually replaced with better suited but fewer in number antibodies for longer term immunity.

From my reading the booster shots currently are formulated exactly the same as the shots form about a year ago. If I get a booster the action will be another flood of those inefficient circulating antibodies for a while. I took the shots last March. By now my immune system has made the much better suited immune cells and has them in place tailored to the spike protein copies in the formula of the first vaccine shots.

I have written this sort of thing in several posts and did include links to back up my comments. This is a summary to be sure and some details are left out to make it shorter. (Yeah, it is shortened) I can find the links and will respond if any wish to have a decent conversation. We will likely have to talk around the name calling and put downs from the crew.

Same old broken record ... in LP (long play) format.

 

[Orange devil]

Tried to be civilized with bipolar jtmat

We have a couple of those vaccinated anti-vaxxers here.

Just because some people don't belive in getting multiple boosters every time a new variant comes out does not make them anti- vaxxers , but ther is Definitely a pattern going on .

 

[Burkey]

Tried to be civilized with

Just because some people don't belive in getting multiple boosters every time a new variant comes out does not make them anti- vaxxers , but ther is Definitely a pattern going on .

What pattern were you expecting?
It’s like getting upset that the pharmaceutical companies are making money off of this. What exactly would you expect during a pandemic? A moratorium on profits?

Of course new jabs will arrive with new variants. This isn’t new. Do you regard flu shots as a conspiracy?

 

[Orange devil]

What pattern were you expecting?
It’s like getting upset that the pharmaceutical companies are making money off of this. What exactly would you expect during a pandemic? A moratorium on profits?

Of course new jabs will arrive with new variants. This isn’t new. Do you regard flu shots as a conspiracy?

So with the flu I get them sometimes not every year ..It depends on my schedule guilty.it does seem like the years when I get them ..I get sick ,unlike the years when I don't. Not saying the "flu" shot does not work and With the covid I'm ok with a booster Once a year,not every few months.just feel like it's More variants, more viruses,more experimental injections and more laws with endless restrictions. This covid game is permanent. Conspiracy ? who knows,someone is to blame for this virus excaping the lab. I'm sure ther is definitely some people that have gotten extremely $$ rich from covid ,the vaccine /boosters and lives lost.

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