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Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

sk47

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oOoops! This from the Cleveland clinic...emphasis mine,


Cleveland Clinic recommends those who are eligible receive the COVID-19 vaccine.

In June, we shared research that provided insight into how the immune system protects the body after a confirmed COVID-19 infection. The study followed Cleveland Clinic caregivers over five months as the vaccination process was beginning. The data showed that the vaccine was extremely effective in preventing COVID-19 infection. In addition, during the study, none of the employees who had confirmed positive PCR tests and remained unvaccinated were re-infected. It’s important to note that this study was conducted in late 2020 and early 2021, before the emergence of the Delta variant.

More research is needed. We do not know how long the immune system will protect itself against re-infection after COVID-19, as our study only looked at individuals over a five-month period, or how well-protected previously infected individuals are against variants. It is also important to keep in mind that this study was conducted in a population that was younger and healthier than the general population.

It is safe to receive the COVID-19 vaccine even if you have previously tested positive, and we recommend all those who are eligible receive it.


https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.or...ment-on-previous-covid-19-infection-research/

Interesting, huh?
Hello; Already been addressed. Natural immunity and vaccine immunity for covid in particular are both new and the lasting effect question is ongoing. Week by week, month by month the lasting will be checked.
While the mRNA immunity is new, natural immunity is not.

If the virus mutates enough neither natural nor shot immunity will continue to work. Same for both. We appear to be lucky with the delta as both types of immunity are still appearing to help with delta.

I do not know why after a study determines natural immunity is good and robust, that they still suggest getting a shot. Maybe a CYA thing. Maybe to stay in good graces with the rest of the community? Maybe if they figure the shots are truly safe , they think having a shot will do no harm. So why not. I do not know why these statements are added. Maybe it is like all those safety warning stickers on so many products.
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CJJon

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Hello; I actually taught AP Biology last in 2004. Not super recent to be sure, but not in the 70"s. I do use recollections for sure. Science understanding does change but some basic understandings do persist. My take is the natural immunity has some basic features understood for a long time. The understanding can change with new evidence if new evidence comes along. Are you saying there is new evidence about natural immunity which changes long held understanding?

I read a link just moments ago about natural immunity. There is a new to me idea in that link. Something like colds (rhinovirus) do not get a strong immune response because the body does not worry to much about upper respiratory infections. That was stated as a reason why we can get so many colds.
Very different from what I had learned which was we get a lots of colds because there are a large number of different cold virus.
I hope to learn more about this idea. On first read it does not make sense. Perhaps you can be of help?
What I am saying is that SARS-CoV-2 was never seen in humans two years ago. We know relatively little about it. It's mutating rapidly too. Today's Covid isn't yesterday's. Natural immunity isn't on or off and varies tremendously between individuals. People have been reinfected several times - it is rare, but it happens. The vaccine is safe and effective and those that have been infected benefit from it. The Cleveland study has not been peer reviewed and the Clinic themselves has said:

More research is needed. We do not know how long the immune system will protect itself against re-infection after COVID-19, as our study only looked at individuals over a five-month period, or how well-protected previously infected individuals are against variants. It is also important to keep in mind that this study was conducted in a population that was younger and healthier than the general population.

It is safe to receive the COVID-19 vaccine even if you have previously tested positive, and we recommend all those who are eligible receive it.


I've no idea what article you are referencing, but it sounds interesting. Frankly, it feels like you are trying to bait me into a 'gotcha'. *Shrugs*
 

CJJon

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Hello;

I do not know why after a study determines natural immunity is good and robust, that they still suggest getting a shot. Maybe a CYA thing. Maybe to stay in good graces with the rest of the community? Maybe if they figure the shots are truly safe , they think having a shot will do no harm. So why not. I do not know why these statements are added. Maybe it is like all those safety warning stickers on so many products.
Maybe because it was just one study (a retrospective cohort I believe), has not been peer reviewed, and the vaccine is safe and effective and provides even better protection even of the natural immunity is just good enough.

Do you not see your bias here though? "Maybe a CYA thing", "stay in good graces", "So why not", "like all those warning stickers"

Couldn't be that they are reasonable experts following the current science? Nah...follow the money.
 

GT Pony

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I do not know why after a study determines natural immunity is good and robust, that they still suggest getting a shot. Maybe a CYA thing. Maybe to stay in good graces with the rest of the community? Maybe if they figure the shots are truly safe , they think having a shot will do no harm. So why not. I do not know why these statements are added. Maybe it is like all those safety warning stickers on so many products.
I've pondered why the booster too, and what makes sense is that it is to give people a boosted more robust immunity to Covid since the immunity from the initial shots is waning and so infected or reinfectged people don't get as sick and/or die. This is why the booster shot is currently for the most vulnerable people who might fall victim to infection, and who's immunity system isn't as strong to start with. If they just relied on their own immune system to pick up the fight (even if already vaccinated), they might not do as well as with a booster shot.

Obviously the stronger and more ready your immune system is, the faster and better it should react and squash the virus. The more you can do that, the better chances that hospitals won't become over loaded because symptoms will be lesser and people could recover at home, and the better chance it will cut down the spread and mitigate the possibility of mutations taking hold and staring a new spread like the delta mutation did. It's part of trying to put the pandemic to an end.
 
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GT Pony

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K4fxd

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I do not know why after a study determines natural immunity is good and robust, that they still suggest getting a shot.
That is pretty easy to figure out. The people who give them money are pushing an agenda and if they want to keep getting paid they say things like, even though natural immunity is 13 times better than a jab alone we still recommend people who recovered to get a shot too.

Like most everything on this planet, follow the money.
 

sk47

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I've pondered why the booster too, and what makes sense is that it is to give people a boosted more robust immunity to Covid since the immunity from the initial shots is waning and so infected or reinfectged people don't get as sick and/or die. This is why the booster shot is currently for the most vulnerable people who might fall victim to infection, and who's immunity system isn't as strong to start with. If they just relied on their own immune system to pick up the fight (even if already vaccinated), they might not do as well as with a booster shot.

Obviously the stronger and more ready your immune system is, the faster and better it should react and squash the virus. The more you can do that, the better chances that hospitals won't become over loaded because symptoms will be lesser and people could recover at home, and the better chance it will cut down the spread and mitigate the possibility of mutations taking hold and staring a new spread like the delta mutation did. It's part of trying to put the pandemic to an end.
Hello; Two things. First is those who had covid before the shots had a strong enough immune system to recover from the infection. A bit of logic; if a virus is not defeated it keeps on invading and killing cells. You eventually die. Same as before, I am talking those who did not need serious medical help, but recovered on their own.

Second thing which is based on information found in that recent days. Both the natural immunity from an actual infection and the immunity from a shot start up a regular immune system reaction by in the person's body. A difference seems to be the shots may make a larger number of antibodies for a while. The booster shot will have to be the same formula by the emergency use rules so it does not start up the immune system since that was already done from the other shots or by the actual infection. All the booster might do is generate some extra antibodies is my take.

Thing is those naturally immune have already defeated the virus and their immune system has already proven to be able to make plenty of antibodies. If plenty is enough, why would you need more?
Several pages ago I posted links which discussed how there is a difference of opinion about the value of antibodies. The articles I find mention how the booster will increase antibodies. It seems extra antibodies are favored by some researchers Unless some other information is around what I find is the booster will make extra antibodies. I guess if I made a vaccine I would tout it's differences and claim the differences as a positive. I can see the benefit of plenty of antibodies for an unprotected person ( the unvaccinated). What i still do not follow is how there is a benefit for the naturally immune. That i do not think the naturally immune need the shots somehow has gotten me labeled as an anti-vaxxer, even tho i took the shots.

I have had the first two shots and my immune system is primed and ready to make extra antibodies when needed. Same for the naturally immune, they will make more when needed.
If I already have the mechanism to make plenty, why do i need to have extra for a while?

When I first started looking at what struck me as a strange idea, that strange idea being that the naturally immune needed the shots. I wondered if the shots did something natural immunity does not. A greater number of antibodies seems to be the difference. A difference which has questionable value if the persons natural immunity has already proven to be plenty good enough.

Now the third booster is suggested for old folks like me. My first thought is the booster would have a new formula to cover the new variants of the virus and not just alpha. But such is not the case. The third shot is the same formula because of the rules. No change. My immune system is already primed by the first two. If i am infected the shots are supposed to have gotten me ready to quickly respond. To my thinking, there needs to be some additional information other than I will have some extra antibodies. I have some notions about the why but no proof as to why right now.
 
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GT Pony

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" The people who give them money are pushing an agenda and if they want to keep getting paid they say things like ... "

Looks like Walmart just got bought out of aluminum foil again this weekend. 😄
 

GT Pony

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Now the third booster is suggested for old folks like me. My first thought is the booster would have a new formula to cover the new variants of the virus and not just alpha. But such is not the case. The third shot is the same formula because of the rules. No change. My immune system is already primed by the first two. If i am infected the shots are supposed to have gotten me ready to quickly respond. To my thinking, there needs to be some additional information other than I will have some extra antibodies. I have some notions about the why but no proof as to why right now.
Apparently the booster, even though being the same formulation as the first two shots, is still boosting the immune system enough to make a difference, even against the delta variant. They say the delta variant is stronger than the alpha, and if your immune system is boosted than that is better than not.

There's a reason the booster shot is only approved for people 65 and older and for already vaccinated people with already compromised immune systems ... I explained it earlier why a booster is advantageous for those people. The short answer is because their immune system may not be strong enough after already been vaccinated, or even if already been infected and recovered.
 

sk47

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Apparently the booster, even though being the same formulation as the first two shots, is still boosting the immune system enough to make a difference, even against the delta variant. They say the delta variant is stronger than the alpha, and if your immune system is boosted than that is better than not.

There's a reason the booster shot is only approved for people 65 and older and for already vaccinated people with already compromised immune systems ... I explained it earlier why a booster is advantageous for those people. The short answer is because their immune system may not be strong enough after already been vaccinated, or even if already been infected and recovered.
Hello; I have already addressed this and what i find does not support your comments. It is already written in my more recent posts.
 

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Always funny to me to see people spouting natural immunity and talk about how strong their body is despite the fact they are completely out of shape, overweight, and don't even drink water/have a shit diet 🤣
 

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Hello; I have already addressed this and what i find does not support your comments. It is already written in my more recent posts.
You don't think the booster increases waning antibodies and strengthens your immune system ... regardless of all other aspects, or if you've already had Covid or not? It also makes your natural immune system remember the virus better so it can react faster. What's so negative about that?

If booster shots were not needed for many vaccines, then why are there booster shots for all kinds of vaccines - list in link below. Oh, I forgot it's for the "money grab". 😄 Or is it because the science of virology sees a real reason for a booster shot. Oh, I forgot that science was cancelled. 😏

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/vaccine-booster-shots
 
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K4fxd

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The below is from your link

The shot triggers your immune system to attack the foreign organism, like it would if you actually got the disease.

What part of that don't you understand?

People who recovered from covid, or any virus, don't NEED a jab.
If you want one that is your choice, or should be. Not some mandate.
 

sk47

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You don't think the booster increases waning antibodies and strengthens your immune system ... regardless of all other aspects, or if you've already had Covid or not? It also makes your natural immune system remember the virus better so it can react faster. What's so negative about that?

If booster shots were not needed for many vaccines, then why are there booster shots for all kinds of vaccines - list in link below. Oh, I forgot it's for the "money grab". 😄 Or is it because the science of virology sees a real reason for a booster shot. Oh, I forgot that science was cancelled. 😏

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/vaccine-booster-shots
Hello; There may be nothing negative about a booster or regular jab if the vaccines are as truly "safe" as is being claimed. Thing is the naturally immune already have a good immune system. So there is no need for them to risk the shots. If the shots prove to actually be safe over years then it is a wash. If there turn out to be unexpected side effects that they dodged a bullet and are at no risk from the virus.

By the way the link you posted is a bit dated. It is true that over time, usually a few years, the immune system can not be as sharp as it was. I get a tetanus shot at around ten years. But we are at around six months for the covid shot. The immune system has not weakened in six months, only the number of active antibodies. There are still some antibodies and my immune system can make more as needed.
look at it this way, if the immune response from the shots is failing at six months, then there is a serious problem with the way the shots work.
I have written plenty about this already, but will summarize. Only thing the shots do is cause the human immune system to do it's job. It is the immune system that does the work.
 

GT Pony

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^^^ sk47, so Aug 19, 2021 is "a little dated" ? 😄 Maybe you need new glasses.

The article also talks about booster shots in general and reasons why they exist. For some strange reason some people think it can't apply to the Covid vaccine. Is it because it's all made up and just a "money grab" ? Is the booster shot just water and they are "faking everone out" so they can grab more money. You do realize not all viruses nor vaccines are all the same. So once again you to try to go off track with an example like the tetanus to try somhow to justify your misunderstandings of what booster shots are for. The longer this thread goes the closer to total idiocracy it seems to go for some.
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