Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

[K4fxd]

Doesn't mean you can "do whatever you want" regardless of laws. Mankind made laws for a reason - to separate himself from being a complete animal.

I never said it was possible to do whatever I want regardless of laws.

If you want to live under a totalitarian government there are several you can choose from. It is all for the betterment of the State, forget the individual.

I put on my Countries uniform to protect the freedom to choose that you are giving away willy nillie.

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[Burkey]

I never said it was possible to do whatever I want regardless of laws.

If you want to live under a totalitarian government there are several you can choose from. It is all for the betterment of the State, forget the individual.

I put on my Countries uniform to protect the freedom to choose that you are giving away willy nillie.

What if the aim of the mandates is to provide freedom for all?
Nobody like lockdowns, masks and all that stuff. I’m quite sure that governments don’t like implementing them either. Hard to win a popularity contest whilst making unpopular decisions right?

Remember when the US conscripted people to go to war? Where were their freedoms?

You’re being asked (not forced) to go and do something for your country that might actually save people, including yourself, in order to restore the freedom you hold so dear.

Instead, you continue to swim against the stream.

It seems that some people aren’t able to recognise the difference between being asked to do something they don’t like and being forced.

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

Hello; Yes natural active immunity can fade in some ways as i already stated. However it often can last for years and even decades in that the body can start up the active components again after a long time. It does not just go away.

The part about mutated strains of a pathogen is the same for natural and vaccine immunity. Some pathogens mutate a lot and often such as the flu virus. This may turn out to be the case for covid, but so far the mutations (drift) is not yet great according to the reports. Thing is the same thing happens for vaccine immunity as you are describing for natural immunity. When the virus has a changed enough mutation the vaccines will no longer work at all. Same for natural and vaccine immunity.
( side note- this is where an effective clinical medication or treatment can be better than vaccines. If a medication can be had that relieves the problem symptoms of the infection then it will not matter if the virus mutates.)

Natural immunity does not explain why infectious childhood disease have been largely eradicated which is what the ultimate objective is regarding COVID19. You pay a higher price achieving natural immunity vs vaccine acquired immunity. The benefit of vaccine acquired immunity is that a vaccine can be developed to provide immunity and as well as a booster shoot when the immunity weans off, thats not the case with Natural Immunity

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

I mean freedom as defined in our founding documents and our constitution.

Freedom is and always has been relative, that was evident when there was a war almost 100 years after those documents were signed because of the discrepancy of those documents. Even before that, it only took ~20 years after singing those documents for a piece of that freedom to be essentially removed with the signing of the Sedition Act.

Too bad all of the fear mongering about the loss of liberty were not going on when the Patriot Act was signed which was the biggest power grab in recent years, and is now officially on the books.

 

[GT Pony]

I never said it was possible to do whatever I want regardless of laws.

If you want to live under a totalitarian government there are several you can choose from. It is all for the betterment of the State, forget the individual.

I put on my Countries uniform to protect the freedom to choose that you are giving away willy nillie.

You're such a drama queen, lol. This country will never become totalitarian. We already saw what happens when someone tries to over throw democracy. That's the real path to becoming totalitarian. It happened right under your nose but I doubt you realized it.

 

[sk47]

Natural immunity does not explain why infectious childhood disease have been largely eradicated which is what the ultimate objective is regarding COVID19. You pay a higher price achieving natural immunity vs vaccine acquired immunity. The benefit of vaccine acquired immunity is that a vaccine can be developed to provide immunity and as well as a booster shoot when the immunity weans off, thats not the case with Natural Immunity

Hello; Again, i am not now and never have suggested that people try to catch the disease in order to get natural immunity. That would be a dumb thing to do. What has happened is millions of people got infected before the vaccines, recovered and now have a natural immunity which is as good as and maybe even better than the vaccine. Believe what ever source you like about this, but humans have had an immune system for millions of years. That system has worked well for a long time and has not stopped working now that we have a new virus.

The folks who are not getting the jab now must have their own reasons. Yes they are taking a chance if they run into the virus. They may get a bad outcome from the infection, a few do. The odds are they will be OK since over 98% do survive with most being OK. The unvaccinated of today who get infected and recover will also have natural immunity. That is the way it has worked for a long time.
Folks with a compromised immune system are likely to know about it. We are exposed to bacteria, virus and fungi every day. For the vast majority of us the immune system deals with these things. Folks with a poor immune system may very well have had problems before the covid came around and know about it. I go to a fish shop in Kingsport TN. There has been a sign on the door for years asking us not to enter if we are sick because someone in the store has an immunity problem.

Some pathogens are a DNA type. Many bacteria I think. Being a DNA type they do not mutate so fast and once we have an immunity for them it tends to last for decades. RNA pathogens cause a lasting immunity but the RNA pathogens mutate often. So it is not that our natural immunity goes away so much as it is that the RNA type virus will mutate and be a different virus.

 

[GT Pony]

Imagine if this country was attacked and a war started, and the draft was activated to get a big and strong enough fighting military in place. These days probably half the people drafted would probably cry that the draft was "unconstitutional' to make them go fight, and they would go hide out in their parents basement - or is it Canada, lol?

 

[GT Pony]

Hello; Again, i am not now and never have suggested that people try to catch the disease in order to get natural immunity. That would be a dumb thing to do. What has happened is millions of people got infected before the vaccines, recovered and now have a natural immunity which is as good as and maybe even better than the vaccine. Believe what ever source you like about this, but humans have had an immune system for millions of years. That system has worked well for a long time and has not stopped working now that we have a new virus.

The folks who are not getting the jab now must have their own reasons. Yes they are taking a chance if they run into the virus. They may get a bad outcome from the infection, a few do. The odds are they will be OK since over 98% do survive with most being OK. The unvaccinated of today who get infected and recover will also have natural immunity. That is the way it has worked for a long time.

If people's immune system were so good then vaccines would never have been invented over 200 years ago and used ever since. Using your "natural immunity" logic nobody should have ever invented vaccines and the science of virology shouldn't exist.

Has science been cancelled?

 

[K4fxd]

It seems that some people aren’t able to recognise the difference between being asked to do something they don’t like and being forced.

If I was still working and was told to take a drug or be fired I call that being forced.

If I was told to take a drug or not be able to grocery shop, I'd call that being forced.

I do not believe in collectivism.

 

[K4fxd]

Imagine if this country was attacked and a war started

There would be no need for a draft. People would line up to defend our Country. Even old men with deer rifles.

Looks to me like you are trying to steer this into politics. I hope the mods see this and remove some of your posts.

 

[Burkey]

If I was still working and was told to take a drug or be fired I call that being forced.

If I was told to take a drug or not be able to grocery shop, I'd call that being forced.

I do not believe in collectivism. You want to live in that kind of place move. We don't want it in Ky and most of the USA

Then you don’t understand what “forced” means.

 

[K4fxd]

Then you don’t understand what “forced” means.

So be it.

 

[sk47]

If people's immune system were so good then vaccines would never have been invented over 200 years ago and used ever since. Using your "natural immunity" logic nobody should have ever invented vaccines and the science of virology shouldn't exist.

Has science been cancelled?

Hello; Clearly people die of disease. People die of the flu. Of covid. Of Ebola. The list goes on. The discussion has not been about that aspect of the human immune system. When a new to us pathogen comes along some people can and do die. The most recent discussion has been about those who recovered from the virus and that they do not need the shots.

The other part of the discussion has been about forcing those who do not want a shot to be forced to get one.

Here is the value of a vaccine. With a proper vaccine a person can have the human bodies immune system "tricked" into generating an immune system response without the danger of an actual infection. To be clear the traditional vaccines were only a trigger for the human immune system. It was the immune system itself that did the work of building up antibodies, T-Cells and other memory cells.
It appears you somehow think the shots themselves give immunity. That is not the case. The old style vaccines often used "killed" virus to stimulate the human immune system. The advantage was the "killed" virus did not cause disease damage. So in reality it is the immune system that causes the immunity reaction. The vaccine just triggers the process.
This is why I have contended a person recovered from the infection has a good natural immunity. The actual virus triggers the immune system to cause the same response as a vaccine. The clear problem is the cell damage from the virus which kills kill body cells and can make up very sick and even cause us to die. So under most circumstances a person is better off with a vaccine than the actual disease.

The problems lie in the side effects of vaccines over time. In a few cases the vaccines actually caused the illness when the virus was not actually "killed" ( I use killed but some argue a virus is not alive to begin with, some say disabled.) There are other well known side effects over time. Old style vaccines had to raise live virus to make vaccines. To raise live virus requires a living host. Chicken eggs were a common choice. Some folks had a bad reaction to the eggs used.

This new style vaccine does not use live hosts is my understanding. I am not up to speed on everything about how it is made. What i gather is they use a DNA sequencing sort of technology to make the mRNA vaccines. This may have mistakes but for example say a lab has a tiny piece of you. Before they can sequence your DNA they have to make lots of copies to have enough material to test.
I think once they have the sequence of the covid virus they pick out the part that makes the outer protein spikes of the virus only. Not the rest of the virus sequence. They then make the vaccine based on that distinct spike protein. Here is where I am not clear about the process. Not sure if the vaccine is just a few million copies of the spike protein or if the vaccine has RNA type instructions that give our body cells instructions to make the correct antibody.
Either way could work I guess.

I took the shots because I am old with two co-morbidities. I figured there can be side effects but at my age the odds were among the worst if infected. I took the shots after thinking over my position. I had an antibody test which was negative. Had it been positive I would have skipped the shots.

 

[K4fxd]

This new style vaccine does not use live hosts is my understanding. I am not up to speed on everything about how it is made.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/federal-judge-blocks-york-covid-191800804.html


The court papers said that all COVID-19 vaccines use cell lines derived from fetal tissue in their development, production, or testing.

The above makes me even less likely to get this type of vaccine

 

[sk47]

Then you don’t understand what “forced” means.

Hello; A distinction without a difference. If you do not get the jab you will lose a job, cannot go to school, cannot go to events, will be refused treatment at hospitals, cannot enter buildings, Can have your insurance rates raised and on and on. The only limits so far is that some authority has not thought of some other punishment yet.

Not a gun to your head sort of force to be sure, if that matters.

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