Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

[MaskedRacerX]

Speaking of Tesla, OK, maybe very peripherally Tesla related …

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/s...civilian-crew-launched-into-orbit-2021-09-15/

Oops that was supposed to be posted right after the Tesla comment, hahaha, it was sitting unposted for like an hour

We could see it from the end of the street / beach cross over, I took a couple of very mediocre-at-best pics (it was pretty hazy last night), just amazing though, it's kind of more about the experience of seeing it vs. crappy iPhone pics

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[rick81721]

We could see it from the end of the street / beach cross over, I took a couple of very mediocre-at-best pics (it was pretty hazy last night), just amazing though, it's kind of more about the experience of seeing it vs. crappy iPhone pics

I need to watch one of those launches up close - from our place, I can see a light go up during a SpaceX launch, and a light from the booster coming back down, but that's it.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

I need to watch one of those launches up close - from our place, I can see a light go up during a SpaceX launch, and a light from the booster coming back down, but that's it.

Oh it can't be described if you get a chance to see one up really close. A good buddy of mine had a friend who was some kind of ground support engineer, involved in aerospace, had a consulting gig with NASA and invited us to a shuttle launch down at Kennedy (it was an early 90s Endeavour mission), we were in a close observation area.

Holy f***ing hell, I think I went into a moment of shock, it's just the most awing thing I'd ever witnessed.

 

[CJJon]

Yes

I suppose it could be called politics if you are told to lie about certain things. I will not further answer this as it delves into forbidden territory.

It's obvious the bias from your sources. Again a full answer will delve into forbidden lands.

Snort!

It's obvious, all right...

 

[CJJon]

I looked at total deaths and it was 412 people under 18 for all 50 states. So about 8 per state. Yet we are supposed to jab people 12 and over. That might make sense if everyone else in the world who wanted one had one.
From the CDC, 99.997% of people under 20 die RECOVER from covid.

Israeli study, people who have had and recovered from covid are 27 times better protected than people who never had it but got jabbed.

And what is your conclusion from the data? What point are you trying to make here?

 

[EmCel]

Snort!

 

[CJJon]

Opinions | Natural immunity to covid is powerful. Policymakers seem afraid to say so. (msn.com)

“More than 15 studies have demonstrated the power of immunity acquired by previously having the virus. A 700,000-person study from Israel two weeks ago found that those who had experienced prior infections were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated. This affirmed a June Cleveland Clinic study of health-care workers (who are often exposed to the virus), in which none who had previously tested positive for the coronavirus got reinfected. The study authors concluded that “individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination.” And in May, a Washington University study found that even a mild covid infection resulted in long-lasting immunity.”

“Downplaying the power of natural immunity has had deadly consequences. In January, February and March, we wasted scarce vaccine doses on millions of people who previously had covid. If we had asked Americans who were already protected by natural immunity to step aside in the vaccine line, tens of thousands of lives could have been saved. This is not just in hindsight is 20/20; many of us were vehemently arguing and writing at the time for such a rationing strategy.”

“One reason public health officials may be afraid to acknowledge the effectiveness of natural immunity is that they fear it will lead some to choose getting the infection over vaccination. That’s a legitimate concern. But we can encourage all Americans to get vaccinated while still being honest about the data. “



Hello; There is more worth reading in the article. It is an opinion piece but does have links to some information. One link is below.



Booster shots won’t stop the delta variant. Here’s the math to prove it. - The Washington Post

More biased opinion pieces...sigh.

Funny that not enough data and information at the time = "Downplaying"

 

[CJJon]

I must say, this is amongst the weirdest replies I’ve seen you post so far.
Let‘s break it down.
It starts with an opinion piece from MSN, complete with links to the studies that theoretically support the authors position. Right?
Well…..
When we click on the first link, the title quite clearly reads:
“The Power of Natural Immunity
Studies show it’s durable and widespread. If you’ve had Covid, you can get by with one shot of vaccine.”

Now, I can’t read the rest of the article because I’m not a subscriber but it would be reasonable to assume that it doesn’t exactly support the MSN authors agenda.

Second link from the MSN article takes us to this:

“Results SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P<0.001) for symptomatic disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected.
Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.”

Again, this doesn’t seem to align with the MSN authors position and worse than that, the PREPRINT (not peer-reviewed) quite clearly states the figure as 13, not 27. I literally can’t work out where the MSN author is pulling this figure from.

Time for the third link:
Again, a PREPRINT.

“Results Among the 52238 included employees, 1359 (53%) of 2579 previously infected subjects remained unvaccinated, compared with 20804 (42%) of 49659 not previously infected. The cumulative incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection remained almost zero among previously infected unvaccinated subjects, previously infected subjects who were vaccinated, and previously uninfected subjects who were vaccinated, compared with a steady increase in cumulative incidence among previously uninfected subjects who remained unvaccinated. Not one of the 1359 previously infected subjects who remained unvaccinated had a SARS-CoV-2 infection over the duration of the study. In a Cox proportional hazards regression model, after adjusting for the phase of the epidemic, vaccination was associated with a significantly lower risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection among those not previously infected (HR 0.031, 95% CI 0.015 to 0.061) but not among those previously infected (HR 0.313, 95% CI 0 to Infinity).”

It‘s somewhere around this point that anyone with any brains has stopped paying attention to the MSN author, in the same way that the MSN author failed to pay attention to any of the work they were citing as evidence of their position.

Quite seriously, did you read the actual studies or just take the word of the dickhead from MSN?

Thanks. You saved me responding.

Can't imagine how tilted my world would be with getting my information mostly via MSN opinion pieces.

 

[CJJon]

I need to watch one of those launches up close - from our place, I can see a light go up during a SpaceX launch, and a light from the booster coming back down, but that's it.

I can't imagine being that close and not going to see every one.

I was a bit of an amature rocket scientist back in the day.

 

[sk47]

I must say, this is amongst the weirdest replies I’ve seen you post so far.
Let‘s break it down.
It starts with an opinion piece from MSN, complete with links to the studies that theoretically support the authors position. Right?
Well…..
When we click on the first link, the title quite clearly reads:
“The Power of Natural Immunity
Studies show it’s durable and widespread. If you’ve had Covid, you can get by with one shot of vaccine.”

Now, I can’t read the rest of the article because I’m not a subscriber but it would be reasonable to assume that it doesn’t exactly support the MSN authors agenda.

Second link from the MSN article takes us to this:

“Results SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P<0.001) for symptomatic disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected.
Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.”

Again, this doesn’t seem to align with the MSN authors position and worse than that, the PREPRINT (not peer-reviewed) quite clearly states the figure as 13, not 27. I literally can’t work out where the MSN author is pulling this figure from.

Time for the third link:
Again, a PREPRINT.

“Results Among the 52238 included employees, 1359 (53%) of 2579 previously infected subjects remained unvaccinated, compared with 20804 (42%) of 49659 not previously infected. The cumulative incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection remained almost zero among previously infected unvaccinated subjects, previously infected subjects who were vaccinated, and previously uninfected subjects who were vaccinated, compared with a steady increase in cumulative incidence among previously uninfected subjects who remained unvaccinated. Not one of the 1359 previously infected subjects who remained unvaccinated had a SARS-CoV-2 infection over the duration of the study. In a Cox proportional hazards regression model, after adjusting for the phase of the epidemic, vaccination was associated with a significantly lower risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection among those not previously infected (HR 0.031, 95% CI 0.015 to 0.061) but not among those previously infected (HR 0.313, 95% CI 0 to Infinity).”

It‘s somewhere around this point that anyone with any brains has stopped paying attention to the MSN author, in the same way that the MSN author failed to pay attention to any of the work they were citing as evidence of their position.

Quite seriously, did you read the actual studies or just take the word of the dickhead from MSN?

Hello; I highlighted some telling bits of what you posted in an failed effort to dis the link I posted. Let me state my point again. I figure those who survived the covid infection on their own do not need a shot. That they have natural immunity strong and durable enough to protect them. This seems to be the case in the three highlighted and underlined bits above.

I follow the notion being put out that if the naturally immune get a shot this is supposed to add some protection, but do not buy into it. The other link I posted referenced that. It seems some medical spurts like the total number of antibodies to be the defining quality of immunity. Others accept the way natural immunity works as a standard.
Thing is we are learning the levels of protection from the shots fades over time, hence the new push for booster shots. Natural immunity will see the level of antibodies fall over time as well, but the memory component of natural immunity can and will up production of antibodies if the body sees that virus again.
So the idea that a shot improves natural immunity is apparently based on an odd logic. If a person has a good immune system which fought off the virus itself without help, then the logic that follows is that same immune system can fight off the same virus again. The second or third time around the immune system kills off the invading virus much quicker and we often never know we were exposed.

The benefit of being naturally immune is you do not have to face potential side effects of the shots. There are side effects to be sure. I was sick for two days after the second moderna shot. There may be other side effects.
An additional benefit is the shots could have been stretched further to be used for those who needed and wanted them. A strong case can be made that having the naturally immune take shots early in the vaccine rollout prevented others from getting them and that some got sick and even died because of this.

 

[Strokerswild]

A friend's wife got Covid a second time, and it almost killed her. The first time was a total non-event. She thought she would be fine after Round 1.

Take from that what you will.

 

[Sivi70980]

A friend's wife got Covid a second time, and it almost killed her. The first time was a total non-event. She thought she would be fine after Round 1.

Take from that what you will.

Different variant?

 

[CJJon]

Hello; I highlighted some telling bits of what you posted in an failed effort to dis the link I posted. Let me state my point again. I figure those who survived the covid infection on their own do not need a shot. That they have natural immunity strong and durable enough to protect them. This seems to be the case in the three highlighted and underlined bits above.

I follow the notion being put out that if the naturally immune get a shot this is supposed to add some protection, but do not buy into it. The other link I posted referenced that. It seems some medical spurts like the total number of antibodies to be the defining quality of immunity. Others accept the way natural immunity works as a standard.
Thing is we are learning the levels of protection from the shots fades over time, hence the new push for booster shots. Natural immunity will see the level of antibodies fall over time as well, but the memory component of natural immunity can and will up production of antibodies if the body sees that virus again.
So the idea that a shot improves natural immunity is apparently based on an odd logic. If a person has a good immune system which fought off the virus itself without help, then the logic that follows is that same immune system can fight off the same virus again. The second or third time around the immune system kills off the invading virus much quicker and we often never know we were exposed.

The benefit of being naturally immune is you do not have to face potential side effects of the shots. There are side effects to be sure. I was sick for two days after the second moderna shot. There may be other side effects.
An additional benefit is the shots could have been stretched further to be used for those who needed and wanted them. A strong case can be made that having the naturally immune take shots early in the vaccine rollout prevented others from getting them and that some got sick and even died because of this.

...but what about this/

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm

I posted this before though. But, whatevs...

Although laboratory evidence suggests that antibody responses following COVID-19 vaccination provide better neutralization of some circulating variants than does natural infection (1,2), few real-world epidemiologic studies exist to support the benefit of vaccination for previously infected persons. This report details the findings of a case-control evaluation of the association between vaccination and SARS-CoV-2 reinfection in Kentucky during May–June 2021 among persons previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 in 2020. Kentucky residents who were not vaccinated had 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with those who were fully vaccinated (odds ratio [OR] = 2.34; 95% confidence interval [CI] = 1.58–3.47). These findings suggest that among persons with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection, full vaccination provides additional protection against reinfection. To reduce their risk of infection, all eligible persons should be offered vaccination, even if they have been previously infected with SARS-CoV-2.*

 

[Strokerswild]

Different variant?

No idea. As I recall, she got the first round in May of '20, and round two was very late '20, near the holidays.

 

[sk47]

A friend's wife got Covid a second time, and it almost killed her. The first time was a total non-event. She thought she would be fine after Round 1.

Take from that what you will.

Hello; Some possible things. Possibly she ran across a mutated strain that is different enough from the first strain to get by the antibodies and memory already in place in the body and the body had to start all over again with a full immune response to what it saw as a brand new pathogen.

Possibly something has happened to her immune system in the meantime.

Possibly the first and second infection were not the same virus. A family I know close to me had two of them get covid a while back. One of the daughters got sick this summer. She was tested for covid and the flu and both were negative. Turned out she had a different virus that is going around. Some virus with a three letter name I do not recall.

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