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Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

HiTekExec

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The best thing about Al Gore = Love Story
Damn, I forgot about that one...

Yes, I believe humans are having an impact on our planet and climate (none of it good), but possibly Al's "The earth has a fever" blather was from all his hot air...
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Burkey

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Al Gore is literally the embodiment of what is wrong with climate change. Provides intentional misleading data, for 'shock factor.' The dude went to college and majored in government and then journalism before getting heavily involved in politics. Dude has been in politics since he was 17. I know the people who are involved in the student government at my college and they are repugnant. Just seeing it first hand, it honestly doesn't surprise me the dumbshit he says.

Never conducted an experiment, never even published a paper, and doesn't even know how to read a scientific paper. Just says what people want to hear, to gain votes and support. Just uses climate change as a crutch for politician gain which actually does more harm than good. You can see the bias from a mile away. I wish people like him didn't have such a large megaphone and media presence. Failure at all levels imo.

Give it 10 years and Gerta Thunberg will replace him.
100%
Its actually funny that the ā€scepticsā€ point at people like Gore as evidence for the failures of science.
It shows us that they arenā€™t able to attack the relevant fields of scientific enquiry, so instead they shoot the (presumably well-intentioned) messengers instead.

Thunberg makes my blood boil.
She uses emotion rather than reason to make her point.
I donā€™t care how you feel sweetie, I care about the evidence.
She is doing more harm than good IMO.
Sheā€™s basically a political activist dressed up as some sort of messiah.

The intriguing part of all this is that the ā€œscepticsā€ will often point at someone like Gore or Thunberg as evidence for the failures of science (neither are scientists as youā€™ve pointed out) as they start quoting Patrick Moore (not a scientist) as if he has a better grasp of it all.
He too is nothing more than a political activist. The only real difference being that he is funded by those who seek to obfuscate facts.
 

HiTekExec

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It shows us that they arenā€™t able to attack the relevant fields of scientific enquiry, so instead they shoot the (presumably well-intentioned) messengers instead.
Any of these non-scientific often ill-informed messengers has their own agenda and they become lightning rods for any opposing views, all of which creates drama that the media feeds on, perpetuating the digression from the facts and reasonable debate. The media-induced drama becomes the prime story rather than the issue at hand.
 

sk47

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Hello; I may be off track and apologize ahead of time if any of you who post in this thread are actual climate scientists. I get that Gore and Gretta are celebs and are just parroting the actual climate scientists work. Is this not the same thing many of you on this thread have been doing?
If you have done original work it might be helpful to point this out when you post.

Not clear to me if Mr. Gore was citing different scientists than you guys do. Back a decade or few he made some claims which have been proved incorrect. I am fairly sure Greta is using stuff from current scientists. I have watched some PBS TV programs featuring Greta recently.

For your sakes I do hope you have not been citing the same scientists that Gore did. Such would make your sources questionable. I get we are not supposed to question the findings any more, but it is experiences with Mr. Gore and others like him which do make it tough to not have some doubts.

I do not question some warming is being recorded currently so am not going there. I mostly question the notion that human activity is the greater part of the cause of this warming. That leads to questions of what will be the value of the somewhat drastic changes in lifestyles will be. Not going to get into that right now.
 
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Burkey

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I get that Gore and Gretta are celebs and are just parroting the actual climate scientists work.
Thatā€™s the problem. They arenā€™t always quoting the scientific consensus and its utterly infuriating to the rest of us.
Gore goes ā€œoff scriptā€ more times Than I can even count.
 

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Burkey

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Not clear to me if Mr. Gore was citing different scientists than you guys do. Back a decade or few he made some claims which have been proved incorrect.
At times he makes assertions that are supported by the scientific consensus.
At other times he most certainly isnā€™t.
Itā€™s his ā€œoff labelā€ rants that provide ammunition to the ā€œscepticsā€ as they proclaim....ā€œsee, they donā€™t know anythingā€ after HIS predictions (plucked from thin air) donā€™t come to fruition.
 
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HiTekExec

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... are celebs and are just parroting the actual climate scientists work. Is this not the same thing many of you on this thread have been doing?
No, I'm not a climate scientist, nor do I play one on TV, nor am I an activist promoting an agenda and cherry-picking findings (often out of context) to support my claims or desired actions.
I just run IT for a company, which doesn't make me right in most debates, but it should indicate that I at least have some modicum of reasoning and critical thinking (unless I'm thinking of Lilith...)
With any complex issue there will always be fanatics and BS on the fringe of either consolidated camp; ignore those and focus on the facts. Those facts aren't your answer, instead they are your basis for forming intelligent questions and determining the necessary actions, with measurable results, that will enable you to achieve your desired purpose, the "why" of it all.
[note that "you" and "your" are generic and are not targeted to anyone in this thread (unless that's what they want to infer, and then that's their problem)]
The process isn't difficult, it's just logical thinking and strategic planning.
The difficulty with the complex issue of climate change (same goes for religion and politics) is that many choose to ignore the facts or take them out context and drive their own agenda of desired actions; if you can't reach consensus on the facts or desired outcome, then you can't determine the efficient path and effective actions to achieve that outcome.
Naw, let's argue about minutia, tangential irrelevant factoids, or how many freaking angels can fit on the head of a pin... no wonder we can't get things done.
Gee, I feel better now...think I'll go looking for a Lilith. (Hmmm, great title for a song, Looking for a Lilith...)
 

HiTekExec

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Took me a minute to remember which song I was after...
"ā€¦ An' I say, "Aw, come on, now
You know you know about my debutante"
An' she says, "Your debutante just knows what you need
But I know what you want"

I'm thinkin' that Bob had a thing for Lilith too.
hey, @RDPBlueMoon, I just thought of another Dylan song that is sometimes applicable in this thread...
Idiot Wind
 
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Burkey

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Gore getting it wrong in ā€œAn inconvenient truthā€

vs.

Durkin deliberately fudging graphs and carefully editing responses to suit his agenda in his film ā€œThe great global warming swindleā€.

Both of these men represent the worst of it on either side. Personally, I take more offence with Durkinā€˜s approach because he canā€™t even pretend that he didnā€™t know he was lying to his audience.

One aims to promote understanding but misleads the audience, whether through misunderstanding or otherwise I canā€™t say. Durkin blatantly misleads the audience with his fake graphs and editing skills and hopes the audience wonā€™t notice, because despite calling themselves ā€œscepticsā€, most of his audience wouldā€™ve swallowed Durkinā€™s BS without bothering to check his facts.

Sceptical my arse.

 

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Burkey

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And this is what happens when you combine the media with politicians and amateur interpretations of data.

Anyone who thinks NOAA faked data can now rethink their position.

 
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Burkey

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And then thereā€™s this one, because thereā€™s nothing I enjoy more than watching a bunch of conspiracy theorists fail dismally in their amateurish attempts to disprove that which is well established.

Short version:
Anthony Watts recruits people to take note of weather stations across the US that arenā€™t ā€œoptimally locatedā€, thereby reducing the number of weather sations from 1221 down to the 70 stations that the amateurs felt were ā€œadequateā€œ.
NOAA runs the data for both data-sets. Virtually no difference is shown.
Iā€™m guessing you wonā€™t find the results of this experiment on Anthonyā€˜s ā€œWatts up with thatā€ denial website.

The lesson being that amateurs should maybe just shut up and listen when experts speak, instead of investing time and effort into showing how silly they really are.
Or, just stop listening to meteorologists on topics they clearly have no credentials in.

 

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I understand he did that for the same reason I did. Makes sure an otherwise well earned Darwin award won't add insult to injury.
 

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sk47

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Hello; OK so the same response as before with regard to the question of why we should have confidence now when spokes people for the movement in the past got things so wrong about the climate. Only an ________ would question modern science.
I will tell a story from the 1970's. Not really about religion, but religion is involved. I car pooled with a Jehova's Witness during the gas shortage times. There were three of us taking turns driving to save gas.
I learned a lot about Jehova's Witness ideas. One thing was they had agreed to turn over the church building to a land owner after a date in the late 1970's in exchange for free land rent is the way I recall it. My recall of the details may be faulty, but the crux of the story was after that date they would all be taken to the hereafter and would not need the building.
The day and date passed and they were still around. They wound up building a new church somewhere else I guess. Don't know for sure as the gas shortage was over and car pools went away.

So what is the point of this post? I want to move the discussion to the issue with impact for most of us short term. This being the push to "green" lifestyles some are willing to force onto us using climate change as a major reason. Short term a major part of everyday life is supposed to start ending in about nine years. That being some states and many car makers are not going to be selling ICE vehicles any more. The details are not fully formed so I cannot say just how this is supposed to go. But go it apparently will.

We got a taste of the sort of panic lack of fuel can cause with the Colonial Pipeline hack. In nine years when states start not allowing the sale of ICE, my guess is gas stations will not go away immediately. May be their permits or other such legal operation documents will be slowly withheld by the states so they have to stop operation. May be the states will simply hope as their customer base goes away that the stations will start to close. Pretty sure gas stations will not turn into charging stations since it takes too long to charge an EV currently.
Here is a thought. A charging station set up like an old drive in theater. You pull in and park in a slot to charge. Since it will take a while you could perhaps watch a movie or take a nap or maybe they could have some paint you could put on a board and you could watch it dry.

I know what I would wind up doing. I would not travel any further than about 1/3 of the total range of the vehicle much at all. 1/3 to get there. 1/3 to run around and use power for AC/HEAT, wipers lights and such. 1/3 to get home and be stuck for eight hours. Of course I have a basement garage with 220 volt outlets so I could maybe charge up in less time at home.

I wonder what folks in apartment buildings will do? Or people who now park on the street in front of their home. Maybe a lot of extension chords running from a house out to the street. That would make walking or riding a bicycle interesting. I also can picture being out on a cold rainy morning having to roll up the extension chord or on a very cold winter day finding the chord frozen to the ground.

Oh; two more things. As years pass the range from a charge will become shorter as the batteries age and use up their charge cycle capacity. So my 1/3 will be a shorter distance over time. Then I get to buy a whole new battery pack after eight to ten years at considerable expense by todays standards. I looked at the early hybrids back in 2001-2002. I would go to the service departments and ask what a battery pack cost. It was in the thousands of less inflated money 20 years ago. So I bought an ICE only car. 20 years later (two decades) EV's are some better, but not that much. Range issues still are around and long charges are still the norm.

One last thought. Might be the malls now closed down could be revived as charging sites. Lots of parking lot space for charge ports and the mall could become an entertainment area with food courts and stuff to do while you wait for the car to charge. I get there can be rapid chargers but will make a wager not all will be able to pay extra for that use. Many of us will be using the slow chargers if they cost less to use.
I wonder how the cost to charge will work out. There will be the cost of electricity. There will be the cost of the charge unit to build and install. The ground to put it on with taxes and all.
I am sure the "green" folks will have plenty of chargers so we will not have to wait in a line to get a charger. Wont be like gas lines where some woman tries to jump line, hits a car then gets out a spits in the face of another driver, ending up in a fight. I am still not real sure why the man got charged the same as the woman. Maybe I missed some details in the news story.

Enough from me for now. Think I have made some points and made them clear enough. Of course if I have touched a nerve I will be accused of not making sense and being irrational or some such.
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