Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

[Caballus]

I have a 2001 car with 135,000 miles and a 2004 truck with 64,000 miles, so I am not burning up a lot of fossil fuels.

Wouldn't a newer car (and truck) be more fuel efficient?

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[Burkey]

No apology needed. I've bookmarked that. I've got a list of about 10 more papers / studies I want to dig through. On that note - I think that's the most important thing about the ENTIRE climate discussion that just seems to either get ignored or glossed over.......the climate on our planet is INCREDIBLY complex.

Many physicists and members of other disciplines of science have done a bunch of research on the climate and many of them note how many scientific skills / facets are actually used when seriously studying the climate. So now when I hear someone dismiss someone's research / findings (mainly because it doesn't agree with their stance - but that's another story) because that science "isn't a climatologist" it actually makes me laugh now.

That's what worries me most about this subject. These assessment reports are written by scientists - they take existing research / studies and draft these "reports" which are used by governments and policymakers and then other "reports" are written and eventually bits and pieces of the original subject matter is trumpeted by different media outlets and eventually parroted as "proof".

The actual information people end up getting is really watered down and many times its convoluted or misconstrued on purpose to line up with the preconceptions of whomever is disseminating this information - most times to the general public.

It's like the temperature anomaly chart which was widely pushed by the media as "proof the planet is warming dramatically"..............so most people took that chart as a representative of actual temperatures - not what it actually was, a chart of temperature anomalies. Which is an entirely different animal. Actually that's part of what spurred by interest in this subject.

For the most part, I entirely agree with you. Any “disagreements” are only in the nuances and not worthy of discussion.

 

[CJJon]

Hello; OK let us stack up what we as an individual are doing to help the situation. I have given examples a few times of how I already try for a small footprint. Lets set aside what has been perhaps my single biggest contribution, that is being childless.

I have reduced my electric bill by at least two thirds compared to the folks who lived in this house before. My monthly water bill is often around 800 gallons including keeping aquariums.
I have a 2001 car with 135,000 miles and a 2004 truck with 64,000 miles, so I am not burning up a lot of fossil fuels.
I push mow my yard which may or may not save fuel, but the environmental cost of manufacture is less for a push mower over a rider.
I collect tap water in a bucket while I wait for it to warm up when I take a shower.
I ride a bicycle to pay four of my bills instead of driving when conditions permit.

So that I question the upfront cost to stop warming by maybe half a degree fifty years from now. I do get that there could be a bigger savings in temp rise if everyone around the world started the protocols tomorrow, but do not think all will get onboard.

So yes I do want some clear details on the sacrifice I will be expected to make. Will I be expected to change my diet? Will I pay more for electricity and have less to use? Will I be restricted from government land and ocean so it will be protected from me? I would like a lot more information on just what sort of lifestyle I will have in my remaining time.
On top of that I want to know what exactly future people will be getting if I go along. Save the polar bears? Stop the glaciers from melting? Oh wait, since the warming will continue for at least 50 years no matter what we do according to the models, can the glaciers or polar bears actually be saved?

I await being put into my place and having to eat crow after you show how much smaller your personal environmental footprint is than mine.

Again, it all sounds a bit selfish. No offense meant. I can't give you the assurances you seek, but I am reasonably certain you will be able to eat your red meat (and afford it) until your dying day. No worries there. I generally trust that things will get better. Are we not better off than we were 50 years ago? Remember LA in the 70's! The air was orange. Change is inevitable and we live in an entropic world...what ya gonna do?

I applaud you for your contributions to keep the population low and to keep from using up resources wantonly. I actually am off the grid except for some electricity that is produced with hydro power. I recycle all my waste water (both black and grey) into my drinking water. I don't have a lawn, I live in the forest and own many trees that put back O2 from all my hot air and flattus. I do have a cat that eats birds though, so you got me there.

I certainly wouldn't mind being part of the generation that pulled our collective heads out of our collective assholes instead of the generation that kept denying and delaying until it was too late. Even though I too do not have children, I would like to leave the place better than when I left it and headed in new and better directions.

Your lifestyle won't change much at all I wager. Certainly nothing you would deem "bad" is going to happen to you before you die because of work towards cleaner air and lower temps.

 

[sk47]

Wouldn't a newer car (and truck) be more fuel efficient?

Hello; Good question. My car is well maintained and gets around 35MPG on average fillups. I check it by filling all the way up each time I get gas. I then reset the trip meter. I calculate at each fill up. Last two fillups got 38 MPG and 34 MPG. The 38 was after a drive to look at an old Mustang so mostly highway. Not sure too many non hybrids beat that now. Looked at a Honda Civic recently which was rated at 37 MPG.
My pickup get a bit over 18MPG except when it is hauling or towing. New trucks may beat that.

The kicker is the environmental cost of manufacture. The way I have heard it is to build a new vehicle has an initial energy and resource cost. So while I may gain a slight MPG advantage with a new vehicle, there will be a deficit for a while.
In my current case my vehicles are old enough to be statistically ready to be replaced. So far they are not using up replacement parts so I can maybe keep them going without skewing the impact too much.

I tend to keep a vehicle at least ten years. Usually longer. Had there been a significant improvement in MPG's for non-hybrid vehicles I would indeed be better off in terms of MPG's.

I have been looking at a new car. I want a Mustang GT and have struggled with my self about if that is the environmentally sound thing to do.

 

[sk47]

Again, it all sounds a bit selfish. No offense meant. I can't give you the assurances you seek, but I am reasonably certain you will be able to eat your red meat (and afford it) until your dying day. No worries there. I generally trust that things will get better. Are we not better off than we were 50 years ago? Remember LA in the 70's! The air was orange. Change is inevitable and we live in an entropic world...what ya gonna do?

I applaud you for your contributions to keep the population low and to keep from using up resources wantonly. I actually am off the grid except for some electricity that is produced with hydro power. I recycle all my waste water (both black and grey) into my drinking water. I don't have a lawn, I live in the forest and own many trees that put back O2 from all my hot air and flattus. I do have a cat that eats birds though, so you got me there.

I certainly wouldn't mind being part of the generation that pulled our collective heads out of our collective assholes instead of the generation that kept denying and delaying until it was too late. Even though I too do not have children, I would like to leave the place better than when I left it and headed in new and better directions.

Your lifestyle won't change much at all I wager. Certainly nothing you would deem "bad" is going to happen to you before you die because of work towards cleaner air and lower temps.

Hello; Sounds like you have me beat. I do take stuff to a recycle place but cannot recycle my waste water. I also do not have any trees. My place is small. Caught in my own trap.

 

[CJJon]

Hello; Sounds like you have me beat. I do take stuff to a recycle place but cannot recycle my waste water. I also do not have any trees. My place is small. Caught in my own trap.

I also have owned (and put over 200K on each) a Gen 2 Prius, a Prius V, and Camry hybrid. Which tends to piss off both the extremes of left and right.

All this makes me seem like I work on a Greenpeace boat and attend PETA vigils at meat packing plants. Nothing could be farther from the truth though!

 

[CJJon]

This will make some here apoplectic:

http://www.healthdata.org/news-rele...obally-more-double-what-official-reports-show

SEATTLE—Globally, COVID-19 has caused approximately 6.9 million deaths, more than double what official numbers show, according to a new analysis by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) at the University of Washington School of Medicine. IHME found that COVID-19 deaths are significantly underreported in almost every country. The updated analysis shows that the United States has had more COVID-19 deaths to-date than any other country, a total of more than 905,000. By region, Latin America and the Caribbean and Central Europe, Eastern Europe and Central Asia were hardest hit in terms of total deaths. This figure only includes deaths caused directly by the SARS-CoV-2 virus, not deaths caused by the pandemic’s disruption to health care systems and communities.

 

[Burkey]

I await being put into my place and having to eat crow after you show how much smaller your personal environmental footprint is than mine.

I appreciate that some people might use their personal choices as some sort of “proof of morality” or however you may choose to word it, but that isn’t the intention of this thread.
However, now that you mention it, here’s a practical example of solving a problem whilst doing a little bit for the environment:
My Mustang was my daily driver.
I plan to own it for the rest of my life.
Parking it in the weather all day, plus the relatively short runs on a daily basis would eventually ruin it.
Solution, ride the motorcycle to work. That one act has reduced my fuel consumption by more than 70%.
Money saved, car saved, infinitesimally tiny contribution toward the planet.
Sometimes I ride the push-bike. Can’t hurt to do some exercise right?

These “changes” are tiny in the scheme of things but make no real difference to the quality of my life, other than keeping more dollars in my pocket each week.

This will make some here apoplectic:

http://www.healthdata.org/news-rele...obally-more-double-what-official-reports-show

SEATTLE—Globally, COVID-19 has caused approximately 6.9 million deaths, more than double what official numbers show, according to a new analysis by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) at the University of Washington School of Medicine. IHME found that COVID-19 deaths are significantly underreported in almost every country. The updated analysis shows that the United States has had more COVID-19 deaths to-date than any other country, a total of more than 905,000. By region, Latin America and the Caribbean and Central Europe, Eastern Europe and Central Asia were hardest hit in terms of total deaths. This figure only includes deaths caused directly by the SARS-CoV-2 virus, not deaths caused by the pandemic’s disruption to health care systems and communities.

But it’s all a leftist conspiracy, designed to keep the masses in fear and under control.
Oh, and the reported numbers are nothing but a hoax because a few examples of incorrect reporting exist.
Take THAT!

 

[Qcman17]

I remember all of the acid rain problems we had here primarily as a result of the US burning lots of coal in the 70's. Lots of poisoned rivers and lakes and some very costly cleanup followed.
But the issue isn't even mentioned anymore in part I suppose due to it being a lot less prevalent now. So yeah we do contribute to pollution, climate change whatever and it can be turned around by doing some more responsible things. Its forgotten because it has been improved.

 

[CJJon]

Creeeeeeepy!

How could you expect anyone to take you seriously? Maybe after some therapy or something...

Yikes

 

[Burkey]

Peer review these.

 

[Burkey]

1. You don’t know that I’m a chain-smoker
2. You seem to think there’s a moral issue with consuming alcohol in large quantities from time to time. I’d like you to prove it.
3. Are you one of these people who demand “freedom“ but then want to tell people what they can and can’t do with their own bodies? Seems like a weird paradox if that’s the case.
4. The hat was produced by a mate of mine (that’s a friend, you probably don’t have any) for him to sell online.
A narcissist would refuse to allow that hat into distribution.
In Australia, your mates aren‘t your mates if they aren’t taking the piss out of you, and you’re considered a dickhead if you take it to heart.
Anything else you’d like to know about Aussie culture?

 

[Burkey]

None of this is news, now how does any of that relate to me?

 

[Burkey]

Fuck...are you genuinely this dense in real life or just taking the piss?
It’s incredibly difficult to tell.

You seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions and fallacious comparisons.

Would you like to tell me how many cigarette butts I’ve flicked out the window in the past 12 months?

It‘s a sure sign to anyone of any intelligence that you’ve lost the debate regarding science, and have now moved on to what are basically ad hominems, dressed up as some sort of weird and embarrassing (for you) collection of drivel.

 

[Burkey]

At no point did I EVER deny being a smoker, but thanks for trying to cast aspersions with regard to my honesty.
Are you always this big a piece of shit or just on forums?

For clarity, your claim was that I am a CHAIN smoker.
Precision of language matters. Ergo, I reject your assertion.

Please tell me more about this whole cancer thing. Not sure that I got it the first four hundred times.

Ok, I’ve seen some crazy shit, but you take the cake. Even the most staunch anti-science nuts are reading your missive and wondering how you got out of the asylum.

I‘m not even going to dispute the numbers because it’s not relevant to demonstrating how badly you grasp this.
You seem to expect perfection. It will never happen.
More than half the worlds population wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for science.

Let’s flip your argument on its head.
People have prayed and prayed for the safety of their loved ones, yet people die of all sorts of causes every day. Clearly your god has no ability to save them, therefore, maybe you should abandon him/her/it, or at the very minimum, stop investing time and resources into an endeavour that simply doesn’t work.

While your god watched millions die of a virus over the course of the past year or so, scientists got on with the job.

Why did your god not invent a vaccine for polio, or any of the other vaccines that we now take for granted?
Plenty of people gave him money. Seems like they may have wasted their funds.
Imagine If churches gave 100% of their donations to starving kids....no child would go hungry.

Science costs money. I don’t know why a god would need any.

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