Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

[sk47]

That not true at all.

Thalidomide was a drug that was given to pregnant women to alleviate morning sickness and was on the market for several years before it was withdrawn because of the birth defects. It was never tested on pregnant women and went on the market in 1956 before eventually being removed quietly.

It was a big deal here in the US as the situation strengthened FDAs oversight of pharmaceuticals

Hello; I was young when that happened. It was an awful thing. That is one of the things I have thought of when the discussion turns to potential long term side effects.

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[sk47]

The immune system is even better ready and primed to take on the virus if vaccinated ... ask the dead people who were unvaccinated just how "ready to fight the virus from the get go" their immune system was.

Hello; Since the quotes you used of mine are not about the unvaccinated at all, your response is completely off base and out of context. I was writing about the immune response of the vaccinated. You have my sympathy.

 

[sk47]

Hello; I was young when that happened. It was an awful thing. That is one of the things I have thought of when the discussion turns to potential long term side effects.

Hello; The testing was not as stringent with Thalidomide back then I guess. I am not sure if that tragedy was the only thing to spur new requirements for safety. Ways to think about how that bad outcome is relevant might include these.

One that might apply is the lack of long term testing of Thalidomide compared to current normal standards. One of the things about the new mRNA shots has been how quickly it went from a lab into arms. I keep hearing of how a very large number of tests subjects was used. Testing on a lot of people is good as far as it goes, but does not tell anything about long term.

Another might be how confident the doctors and drug makers were in their new Thalidomide compound's safety. Safe enough for pregnant women. I have heard a multitude of times how safe this new mRNA vaccine is. Such stated with all the confidence possible. Perhaps they feel secure because of the liability protections attached?

Interesting how what was considered the safe and prudent way to come up with a new medication has been turned upside down since December of 2019. Not just in the way it has been applied to many millions in such a short time, but in other ways.

A new experimental medicine (vaccine) is not only being used in record time, it is being mandated. A new medication still not having liability attached is being forced onto the public. Not for a terrible disease such as Ebola with a super high death rate, but for a disease over 98% survive.
It made some sense to use the shots on the old, obese, and others with a big risk. When I took the shots the information was at around a 5% death rate for my age group. At that time the overall death rate was around 1.6% for every one even with the old like me were factored in. Best I can recall the rate for those under 50 was a fraction of one percent.

I do not want the shots to turn out bad. I find the push by so many to have everyone get the experimental vaccine to be irrational. I rail against the use of coercion equal to force in the tactics being used by authorities and supported by so many. Seeing them get their come-uppins would be a pyric sort of thing if the outcome proves to be tragic.

 

[Burkey]

That is one of the things I have thought of when the discussion turns to potential long term side effects.

When new drugs hit the shelves, as they do, do you spend as much time worrying about the possible future side-effects as you do with the vaccines?

I say this because I don’t recall anyone ever expressing any concern when Ibuprofen (as one example) first hit the shelves.

It‘s almost as if the media you might be paying attention to might be influencing people to be far more sceptical
of this than any other existing vaccine or medicine.

The irony is, many of those same sources also reported about how effective and safe HCQ is, when it’s actually not that safe of a drug for people who have Covid.
The effect it can have on the heart was well documented prior to this pandemic.

Yet here they are, shunning a vaccine on the basis that it “might” be harmful whilst promoting a drug that is known to cause complications that aren‘t fantastic for people with Covid. The juice might be worth the squeeze if the benefits outweigh the risks of course, but it doesn’t seem to be the case..

 

[sk47]

When new drugs hit the shelves, as they do, do you spend as much time worrying about the possible future side-effects as you do with the vaccines?

I say this because I don’t recall anyone ever expressing any concern when Ibuprofen (as one example) first hit the shelves.

It‘s almost as if the media you might be paying attention to might be influencing people to be far more sceptical
of this than any other existing vaccine or medicine.

The irony is, many of those same sources also reported about how effective and safe HCQ is, when it’s actually not that safe of a drug for people who have Covid.
The effect it can have on the heart was well documented prior to this pandemic.

Yet here they are, shunning a vaccine on the basis that it “might” be harmful whilst promoting a drug that is known to cause complications that aren‘t fantastic for people with Covid. The juice might be worth the squeeze the benefits outweighed the risks of course, but it doesn’t seem to be the case..

Hello; Not clear how you associate all this in your post with what I wrote. Pretty sure the mRNA shots are the only emergency use medication I have ever used.
For what it is worth I do read the papers included with any medications I take. I was prescribed oxy after my knee surgery in 2002. A bottle full of the pills. I took only two. One the first morning after and another after the second morning as first thing in the morning those first two days after were the worse pain. I lived with the pain from then on because I paid attention to how addictive the stuff is.
Do drug companies put profit above safety sometimes?

As far as HCQ goes, it has been around for over five decades. Well understood in terms of side effects. Some medical professional still say it helps if used early enough in an infection. Not a cure by any means and never was. Just a possible aid to help the body deal with the infection. You know like an ice bath for a high fever. But whatever the truth may have been was trampled and not to be had.

You do not know where I get my information or which news I watch, by the way.

I must have hit a nerve in my last post to get such a disjointed response that does not address my points

 

[Burkey]

Hello; Not clear how you associate all this in your post with what I wrote. Pretty sure the mRNA shots are the only emergency use medication I have ever used.
For what it is worth I do read the papers included with any medications I take. I was prescribed oxy after my knee surgery in 2002. A bottle full of the pills. I took only two. One the first morning after and another after the second morning as first thing in the morning those first two days after were the worse pain. I lived with the pain from then on because I paid attention to how addictive the stuff is.
Do drug companies put profit above safety sometimes?

As far as HCQ goes, it has been around for over five decades. Well understood in terms of side effects. Some medical professional still say it helps if used early enough in an infection. Not a cure by any means and never was. Just a possible aid to help the body deal with the infection. You know like an ice bath for a high fever. But whatever the truth may have been was trampled and not to be had.

You do not know where I get my information or which news I watch, by the way.

I must have hit a nerve in my last post to get such a disjointed response that does not address my points

I wasn’t aiming to address your “points”. I was asking a question, followed by some detail.

Your points have been addressed repeatedly but you continue as though they weren’t. Hence, I’m ignoring them.

 

[Burkey]

Like I said earlier, I pray there are no long term side effects from this vaccine because we have zero data.

Zero you say?
So the trials that commenced in March of last year don’t count? By my count that’s 18 months of data. Hardly “zero”.

Why choose to use ”zero” when “limited” or “only 18 months“ would‘ve been more accurate?

Your choice of words tells us a lot more than you might think.

 

[GT Pony]

Hello; Since the quotes you used of mine are not about the unvaccinated at all, your response is completely off base and out of context. I was writing about the immune response of the vaccinated. You have my sympathy.

You have my sympathy for being a broken record.

 

[Gregs24]

Hello; But I have indeed answered the question. Here is my comment;
"The authorities get to make a case for the shots as best they can. We individuals get to weigh the choices and make a decision. I did so for my particular circumstance. Being old with two comorbidities helped me to decide. Having a negative covid19 antibody test helped me decide. I freely decided to take the shots and did accept the possibility of an unknown risk from the shots.
The shots did hurt me in a few ways and I will not take a third shot for those reasons and for having a better understanding of how the shots work. "

Let me try to spell it out in a simpler way for you. I would ask the authorities to give us the most accurate and up to date information they have available. ( that would mean no "good lies" or other such.) I would ask them to lay out the possible options available in terms of money to spend, equipment or lack of equipment, Medicines including the shots, but also any others. Allow the authorities to present the best facts.
Then allow each individual to make their own decision.

So actually that does clarify a lot.

'The authorities get to make the case' (I assume by this you understand that the authorities are saying yes, get vaccinated).

However it doesn't answer what you would say when advising those authorities. They will say what you advise, so here is your chance! You have made it very clear now that you are not prepared to take this job and give advice. You are more than happy to attack the 'authorities' for getting it wrong in your eyes, but YOU are not prepared to do the job yourself. The worst sort of conceited person.

What you are saying is that nobody in authority, such as Governors, Presidents, Doctors can give advice. You go to the doctor and say 'should I have the COVID vaccine' and the doctor just gives you paragraphs of opinions not advice. There is a big difference between where you are and where those people in authority are, who have to take responsibility for advising people daily, no excuses, no backing out, no more paragraphs of analogies and opinions. You have clearly demonstrated that you could never hold this essential role.

 

[Gregs24]

Hello; Yes I overlooked that. I tend to lump the mucous lining and the skin as protective barriers. My bad I tend think of the mocosa as a sticky trap for dust and things including bacteria and virus. You are correct.

Probably because you are not medically trained - easy mistake to make

 

[Gregs24]

For all of recorded history we haven't given new medications to pregnant women before extensive and long term testing has taken place. The risk of dying of Covid is high in pregnant
women but generally speaking pregnancy is the most dangerous thing any woman will do in there lifetime.

While I agree with the premise the risk of these actions is extremely skewed. The upside is a tiny fraction of a percentage of women won't die but the downside is giving a pregnant woman a new and completely untested drug. Praying is the only thing we have at the point BTW. The ship has sailed.



But we(our countries) are passed lockdowns and overwhelmed hospitals. Not taking the vaccine places almost all the pain and misery on the person whose choice it is not to consume the drug.

I can compare it to fast cars. The goverment should outlaw fast cars. They are uneconomical, comsume more fuel, and are dangerous. The cost of fast cars on society greatly outweighs the risk. See where I am going with this?



Covid has caused still births and miscarriages. The same with the vaccine or any stress for that matter. The data does point to Covid being pretty harmless to babies and children even long Covid is pretty non existent in kids. The last number I heard was 241 kids had died with Covid in 2021. That with Covid not of Covid. RSV most likely got the majority of them. Still as with all of this further research is needed.

And yes if insurance providers what to kick people for not having the vaccine that is perfectly acceptable. Probably illegal in the US but I am a fan of capitalism.

Don't get me wrong on this though. At this point forcing a medicaine on someone is very unAmerican to me and polling suggest the majority of the country feels the same way. Just think how 2019 you would feel about it?

Long covid: One in seven children may still have symptoms 15 weeks after infection, data show | The BMJ

You need to update your learning in long COVID in children.

If the 241 had died from RSV then it would be on their PM - was it? Can you provide the data ?

Praying I will leave to you but it doesn't figure highly in scientific research. You do realise you are saying don't do something with a proven benefit because something awful might happen in the future (but no evidence of this so far) This is a vaccine NOT a medicine - VERY different.

I wasn't aware anybody was being forced to vaccinate here or the US. There may be conditions relating to your job but there are plenty of jobs with conditions attached that mean some people cannot do them. Qualifications would be a good starting point!

 

[Gregs24]

Hello; She has a very sound scientific reason and it is not hysterics. She is recovered from the actual infection. Lots of scientific understanding behind that. That she had such a strong reaction to the one shot is a strong indicator her immune system was already good to go.

You cannot equate reaction to vaccination directly to immunity. Please do NOT post incorrect assumptions as facts

No, vaccine side effects don't tell you how well your immune system will protect you from COVID-19 (theconversation.com)

There are plenty of people with strong immune reactions to the vaccine (and clinical infection) that had NO side effects to the vaccine. Me for one, I had NO side effects and a strong antibody reaction. My son had COVID and was then vaccinated 9 months later (twice) with no side effects at all.

 

[Gregs24]

Hello; I was young when that happened. It was an awful thing. That is one of the things I have thought of when the discussion turns to potential long term side effects.

DRUG V VACCINE - big difference

 

[Gregs24]

A new experimental medicine (vaccine)

DO NOT confuse the two, they are NOT the same

 

[Gregs24]

You know like an ice bath for a high fever.

There you go again - Never use an ice bath for fever. This is absolutely contraindicated as it reduces skin temperature but not core temperature and can increase core temperature as a result of shivering. Never mind the risk of vascular shock and heart problems

At what point are you going to stop pedalling your medical guff and realise you DO NOT know what you are talking about!

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