Science is now cancelled? [USERS NOW BANNED FOR POLITICS]

[CJJon]

the world sees a billion+ cases of colds a year and nobody bats an eye. 'cases', especially those that are 'cases' arising from fraudulent PCR testing doesn't matter. Only counts of people who get sick enough to require significant medical intervention, or death matter. The covid treatment plan costs the same as the one for the common cold in every country that isn't a "western advanced" society where we practice politics instead of medicine.

So much wrong here:

Colds? Mmmm-kay.

Fraudulent testing = Kook talk

Implying Covid = common cold?

Google "COVID-19 sequele"

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[CJJon]

It was expected. The thread was designed to drag them out into the light. The wilful ignorance is more amazing than I previously thought.

Doesn't bode well for the future. Sad.

 

[sk47]

Here’s a better graph of CO2 and temperature for the last 600 million years! | by G Horner | Medium

Hello; I do not know of this persons bonafides, nor do I personally know if his graph is accurate.



carbon dioxide versus temperature chart - Bing images

Hello; I searched for a CO2 vs temp chart at a scale so the lines can be more clearly seen. I had some things in mind. First is the graphs I have seen do seem to show a relationship between CO2 levels and temperature. This raises a question or two, maybe three.

First is if there is a cause and effect relationship. It can go either way. Is it that CO2 levels influence temperature or do temperatures influence CO2? By these questions I mean to ask which causes the other to change or even if they are directly related to each other.



Are there some third, fourth or more factors in play and the relationship between these two particular things may be indirect for each other and more direct with some other factor. Red cars get more speeding tickets may be an example. More on that later.



Is it that changing CO2 levels generate changes that later cause changing temperatures to match the rise and fall of CO2? This ought to be easy to see. Temperature changes ought to always follow CO2 level changes. An example might be the predator-prey relationship graphs I have seen.

So on a graph with good data the CO2 level changes ought to precede the temperature changes. On a graph where the data scales are the same you should be able to see. If the timeline is the horizontal then a straight line at the vertical up thru the chart ought to show at all times the temperature changes lagging behind the CO2 concentration changes. (Caution this sort of analysis ignores other possible factors and pretends only CO2 can change temperatures which does not seem correct to me.)



If the temperature changes precede the changes in the levels of CO2 then there may be a relationship in which it is the temperature itself which affects CO2 and not the other way around. I will use lawn grass as an example in a moment. Could it be that as temperatures rise there is a change in the environment which eventually generates more CO2 in the atmosphere? CO2 levels lagging behind actual temperature changes ought to raise serious questions.



In the spring and in the fall in my area the grass in my lawn grows a lot more than in the winter or often at mid-summer. On first glance it may seem that days are getting warmer and longer are the determining factors. However I figure there is a third factor to consider. By July my area starts to get some high temps. 90 + degree F days. Even with very long days and plenty of rain the grass growth will slow down in the hotter days. My thinking has to do with how temperatures affect photosynthesis. Best I can recall as the temperatures get over 90 degrees, photo synthesis will slow down. Same for when it gets cold in the winter. Lower temperatures seem to slow down photosynthesis.

So what am I driving at? If the temperature rise and fall always follow the CO2 rise and fall then this is a case for CO2 being the cause of temperature change on a global climate scale.

If, however temperature changes lead and CO2 level changes follow sometimes then there are very likely other factors in play. I can come up with hypothesis for how warm temperatures may cause more growth of plants which generates more O2 and food for animals. More temperature and O2 increases the biomass of both plants and animals. Which sees and increase in Co2 emissions from respiration, decay and fires burning the plant biomass.

So when we get a good graph with the timeline on the horizontal and accurate data on a scale which shows separation between the CO2 line and the temp line. Look at the timeline and draw a line straight up to see which leads and which follows.



Back to the red cars and speeding tickets. I have heard for a long time that cops target red cars more than any other color and pull them over more. It this so? Near as I can tell the traffic police use radar to check speed anymore. I do not think they pay attention to the color of the cars or what sort of car so much. They set the radar to sound off when you go over a speed and use that is my take. Is it that those who drive red cars drive faster? Is it that some other color gets the most tickets?

 

[Gregs24]

You really don't know what you are talking about. 'bake time'? Nonsense.

Did you even need to ask ?

 

[Gregs24]

Doesn't bode well for the future. Sad.

Although in my experience these wilful, self opinionated, narcissists are very much in the minority fortunately.

 

[sk47]

In the US

Hello; Does this mean you in another place found something of value in the link?

 

[CJJon]

Good luck getting a state rebate on your new electric car (msn.com)

Hello; Not much in the above link for the EV champions, but it is informative. The way a state rebate program is funded is of interest. Perhaps I should say sometimes funded as there are folks waiting a long time for the state rebates. States are handicapped in that they cannot print money to cover spending they cannot afford, they must find a way to pay.

Carbon cap and trade is mentioned. A carbon tax is discussed. Even raising the price of gasoline is mentioned to fund the EV rebates, but apparently that move is not politically viable and no politician wants to pay the cost. I gather the idea of the move itself is fine if the politician who sponsors the idea could do so without having to suffer at the next election.

I had not thought about how states raise money to subsidize the EV and green goals.

Rebates are abhorrent to me. Likewise all the vaccine lotteries. Totally wrong use of taxpayer funds.

All that cap and trade stuff is smoke an mirrors. Makes people feel better about polluting.

 

[Gregs24]

Here’s a better graph of CO2 and temperature for the last 600 million years! | by G Horner | Medium

Hello; I do not know of this persons bonafides, nor do I personally know if his graph is accurate.



carbon dioxide versus temperature chart - Bing images

Hello; I searched for a CO2 vs temp chart at a scale so the lines can be more clearly seen. I had some things in mind. First is the graphs I have seen do seem to show a relationship between CO2 levels and temperature. This raises a question or two, maybe three.

First is if there is a cause and effect relationship. It can go either way. Is it that CO2 levels influence temperature or do temperatures influence CO2? By these questions I mean to ask which causes the other to change or even if they are directly related to each other.



Are there some third, fourth or more factors in play and the relationship between these two particular things may be indirect for each other and more direct with some other factor. Red cars get more speeding tickets may be an example. More on that later.



Is it that changing CO2 levels generate changes that later cause changing temperatures to match the rise and fall of CO2? This ought to be easy to see. Temperature changes ought to always follow CO2 level changes. An example might be the predator-prey relationship graphs I have seen.

So on a graph with good data the CO2 level changes ought to precede the temperature changes. On a graph where the data scales are the same you should be able to see. If the timeline is the horizontal then a straight line at the vertical up thru the chart ought to show at all times the temperature changes lagging behind the CO2 concentration changes. (Caution this sort of analysis ignores other possible factors and pretends only CO2 can change temperatures which does not seem correct to me.)



If the temperature changes precede the changes in the levels of CO2 then there may be a relationship in which it is the temperature itself which affects CO2 and not the other way around. I will use lawn grass as an example in a moment. Could it be that as temperatures rise there is a change in the environment which eventually generates more CO2 in the atmosphere? CO2 levels lagging behind actual temperature changes ought to raise serious questions.



In the spring and in the fall in my area the grass in my lawn grows a lot more than in the winter or often at mid-summer. On first glance it may seem that days are getting warmer and longer are the determining factors. However I figure there is a third factor to consider. By July my area starts to get some high temps. 90 + degree F days. Even with very long days and plenty of rain the grass growth will slow down in the hotter days. My thinking has to do with how temperatures affect photosynthesis. Best I can recall as the temperatures get over 90 degrees, photo synthesis will slow down. Same for when it gets cold in the winter. Lower temperatures seem to slow down photosynthesis.

So what am I driving at? If the temperature rise and fall always follow the CO2 rise and fall then this is a case for CO2 being the cause of temperature change on a global climate scale.

If, however temperature changes lead and CO2 level changes follow sometimes then there are very likely other factors in play. I can come up with hypothesis for how warm temperatures may cause more growth of plants which generates more O2 and food for animals. More temperature and O2 increases the biomass of both plants and animals. Which sees and increase in Co2 emissions from respiration, decay and fires burning the plant biomass.

So when we get a good graph with the timeline on the horizontal and accurate data on a scale which shows separation between the CO2 line and the temp line. Look at the timeline and draw a line straight up to see which leads and which follows.



Back to the red cars and speeding tickets. I have heard for a long time that cops target red cars more than any other color and pull them over more. It this so? Near as I can tell the traffic police use radar to check speed anymore. I do not think they pay attention to the color of the cars or what sort of car so much. They set the radar to sound off when you go over a speed and use that is my take. Is it that those who drive red cars drive faster? Is it that some other color gets the most tickets?

You are on your own on this one - there has been so much discussed and data presented on this subject it is all there for you to read elsewhere on the forum. There is no need for you to hypothesise on the subject as there is virtually complete scientific consensus on the subject. NASA data shown below. No further discussion required as nothing to debate.

 

[Gregs24]

Hello; Does this mean you in another place found something of value in the link?

No, as only relevant in the US, maybe even just the one state.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Although in my experience these wilful, self opinionated, narcissists are very much in the minority fortunately.

Amen. Was not expecting such self awareness.

 

[CJJon]

Here’s a better graph of CO2 and temperature for the last 600 million years! | by G Horner | Medium

Hello; I do not know of this persons bonafides, nor do I personally know if his graph is accurate.



carbon dioxide versus temperature chart - Bing images

Hello; I searched for a CO2 vs temp chart at a scale so the lines can be more clearly seen. I had some things in mind. First is the graphs I have seen do seem to show a relationship between CO2 levels and temperature. This raises a question or two, maybe three.

First is if there is a cause and effect relationship. It can go either way. Is it that CO2 levels influence temperature or do temperatures influence CO2? By these questions I mean to ask which causes the other to change or even if they are directly related to each other.



Are there some third, fourth or more factors in play and the relationship between these two particular things may be indirect for each other and more direct with some other factor. Red cars get more speeding tickets may be an example. More on that later.



Is it that changing CO2 levels generate changes that later cause changing temperatures to match the rise and fall of CO2? This ought to be easy to see. Temperature changes ought to always follow CO2 level changes. An example might be the predator-prey relationship graphs I have seen.

So on a graph with good data the CO2 level changes ought to precede the temperature changes. On a graph where the data scales are the same you should be able to see. If the timeline is the horizontal then a straight line at the vertical up thru the chart ought to show at all times the temperature changes lagging behind the CO2 concentration changes. (Caution this sort of analysis ignores other possible factors and pretends only CO2 can change temperatures which does not seem correct to me.)



If the temperature changes precede the changes in the levels of CO2 then there may be a relationship in which it is the temperature itself which affects CO2 and not the other way around. I will use lawn grass as an example in a moment. Could it be that as temperatures rise there is a change in the environment which eventually generates more CO2 in the atmosphere? CO2 levels lagging behind actual temperature changes ought to raise serious questions.



In the spring and in the fall in my area the grass in my lawn grows a lot more than in the winter or often at mid-summer. On first glance it may seem that days are getting warmer and longer are the determining factors. However I figure there is a third factor to consider. By July my area starts to get some high temps. 90 + degree F days. Even with very long days and plenty of rain the grass growth will slow down in the hotter days. My thinking has to do with how temperatures affect photosynthesis. Best I can recall as the temperatures get over 90 degrees, photo synthesis will slow down. Same for when it gets cold in the winter. Lower temperatures seem to slow down photosynthesis.

So what am I driving at? If the temperature rise and fall always follow the CO2 rise and fall then this is a case for CO2 being the cause of temperature change on a global climate scale.

If, however temperature changes lead and CO2 level changes follow sometimes then there are very likely other factors in play. I can come up with hypothesis for how warm temperatures may cause more growth of plants which generates more O2 and food for animals. More temperature and O2 increases the biomass of both plants and animals. Which sees and increase in Co2 emissions from respiration, decay and fires burning the plant biomass.

So when we get a good graph with the timeline on the horizontal and accurate data on a scale which shows separation between the CO2 line and the temp line. Look at the timeline and draw a line straight up to see which leads and which follows.



Back to the red cars and speeding tickets. I have heard for a long time that cops target red cars more than any other color and pull them over more. It this so? Near as I can tell the traffic police use radar to check speed anymore. I do not think they pay attention to the color of the cars or what sort of car so much. They set the radar to sound off when you go over a speed and use that is my take. Is it that those who drive red cars drive faster? Is it that some other color gets the most tickets?

Wow, lots of words here. I don't understand why you don't try and look at the current science for your explanations rather than trying to come up with ideas on your own that fit what you are seeing.

Maybe give MSN a rest...https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/global-warming/temperature-change

Red cars do not get more tickets...its a myth.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/red-handed/

 

[Burkey]

I’ll take the time to respond to the second part when I have time…

Hello; I do not know of this persons bonafides, nor do I personally know if his graph is accurate

Given the quote below from the article, I think you could pretty easily deduce that the author either has an agenda , or, no idea what he’s talking about.

“You might note that at 4400 ppm, the earths temperature was roughly the same as it is today! AND an ice age occurred while CO2 was over 4,000 ppm!”

You should be asking yourself WHY the temps at 4000 ppm were similar to what they are now….
The answer lies in solar irradiance.
The author then goes on to cite the usual “skeptics” chart for CO2 and average global temp. Yes, the one that leaves out solar irradiance. You should indeed be very sceptical.

In short, it’s a graph that was designed to convince people who have no idea what they’re talking about.
Oh, and it works, because in their minds it confirms what they want to believe.
Spoon feed them the answers you want them to give and watch them do exactly that.

 

[sk47]

You are on your own on this one - there has been so much discussed and data presented on this subject it is all there for you to read elsewhere on the forum. There is no need for you to hypothesise on the subject as there is virtually complete scientific consensus on the subject. NASA data shown below. No further discussion required as nothing to debate.

Hello; This graph is not the type which will answer the question. The scale is too broad and the CO2 line has been smoothed it would appear. To be a fair representation the temp line should be smoothed as well.
In fact this graph as it is only shows a possible relationship between CO2 and temperature, not that one causes the other.

 

[CJJon]

Hello; This graph is not the type which will answer the question. The scale is too broad and the CO2 line has been smoothed it would appear. To be a fair representation the temp line should be smoothed as well.
In fact this graph as it is only shows a possible relationship between CO2 and temperature, not that one causes the other.

Good grief you are a hard man to reach!

Read this and the references and come back with specific questions about what you don't understand: https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/co2-temperature.html

That took 20 seconds to Google.

"The bottom line is that atmospheric carbon dioxide acts as a thermostat in regulating the temperature of Earth,"

 

[sk47]

"The bottom line is that atmospheric carbon dioxide acts as a thermostat in regulating the temperature of Earth,"

Hello; I have an old style thermostat on my central heat/air. To raise the temperature I must first move the thermostat to a higher temp setting. To lower the temp I must first move it the other way. It is after I make the thermostat move that the heat or AC kicks in, not before.

I am looking for a graph with a small enough scale so the data points for both CO2 and Temps can be distinct. Also over a long enough time frame to show trends. I think such a graph has been posted before in this thread.

In the last few days some have been trying to say others cannot read a graph. I tried to enlarge the graph in question in that recent post but cannot. As it is presented the graph is not useful.

Since graphs have been a large part of the argument of proof for CO2 directed warming it seems reasonable to take a close look at one which shows the data. I will keep looking.

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