Sponsored
SteveW
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2015
- Threads
- 8
- Messages
- 700
- Reaction score
- 271
- Location
- Columbia Gorge area
- Vehicle(s)
- 2015 Mustang GT PP
Compression is how quickly weight "hits" a tire, stiffen compression and weight goes more quickly through the shock directly to the tire.
Rebound is how quickly weight "leaves" a tire, stiffen rebound and weight transfers faster through the shock.
Also, more rebound means the shocks extends more slowly since weight is going more directly from the tire to another corner of the car. A lot of rebound control in shocks will have the effect of jacking down the suspension through a series of transitions.
Ideally you would have a compression adjustment to control the amount of dive and squat from braking and throttle input (and traction over bumps) but a SA Koni has just a rebound adjustment. So, you could turn up rebound evenly at all 4 corners to maintain balance and attempt to control body motions during transitions.
Since increasing rebound will quicken weight transfer the car will be more reactive, meaning you would want to slow down your inputs (steering, braking, throttle) in order to not slide the tires too much. However, less input to make the same direction change but under control would theoretically be faster too.
Rebound is how quickly weight "leaves" a tire, stiffen rebound and weight transfers faster through the shock.
Also, more rebound means the shocks extends more slowly since weight is going more directly from the tire to another corner of the car. A lot of rebound control in shocks will have the effect of jacking down the suspension through a series of transitions.
Ideally you would have a compression adjustment to control the amount of dive and squat from braking and throttle input (and traction over bumps) but a SA Koni has just a rebound adjustment. So, you could turn up rebound evenly at all 4 corners to maintain balance and attempt to control body motions during transitions.
Since increasing rebound will quicken weight transfer the car will be more reactive, meaning you would want to slow down your inputs (steering, braking, throttle) in order to not slide the tires too much. However, less input to make the same direction change but under control would theoretically be faster too.
SteveW
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2015
- Threads
- 8
- Messages
- 700
- Reaction score
- 271
- Location
- Columbia Gorge area
- Vehicle(s)
- 2015 Mustang GT PP
Rear rebound would not affect squat. More front rebound might hold the front down though so kinda hiding the squat that way. It could also create corner exit understeer if you went too high in front rebound.
Yeah, more compression in the rear would help a bunch. I think the Steeda version of the adjustable shocks have a bunch of compression [MENTION=32546]Steeda Tech JohnC[/MENTION] any thoughts?
edit: the Steeda Blue would just look all wrong on your pretty Ruby Red cars, though
DickR
Well-Known Member
Des's car is Royal Crimson . . . ;)edit: the Steeda Blue would just look all wrong on your pretty Ruby Red cars, though
Oh, and thanks for the explanations on shocks
Sponsored
Static_LV
Well-Known Member
I asked that question of Steeda a while ago and for shock dyno's too so we could actually make rational decisions about the application and I was told that information is proprietary.
mustanghammer
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2017
- Threads
- 1
- Messages
- 166
- Reaction score
- 154
- Location
- Parkville Mo
- First Name
- Scott
- Vehicle(s)
- 2017 Mustang GT
Autocross setting recommendations from Koni: http://www.koni-na.com/en-US/NorthAmerica/Racing/Over-Under-Steer/
kz
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2014
- Threads
- 58
- Messages
- 4,107
- Reaction score
- 2,406
- Location
- West Chester, OH
- Vehicle(s)
- Mustangs & F150
Mustang Konis are single adjustable - no compression adjustment...
Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
:shrug: so you skip over the part on setting bump.
Norm
Norm
Coyote Red
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2016
- Threads
- 8
- Messages
- 1,249
- Reaction score
- 371
- Location
- Port Lavaca,Tx.
- First Name
- Alan
- Vehicle(s)
- 2016 5.0 Coyote Red
- Vehicle Showcase
- 1
After my latest mod, SVE progressive spring install I am "burnt out" on more improvements for my GT. Bilstein are available now.
Sponsored
mustanghammer
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2017
- Threads
- 1
- Messages
- 166
- Reaction score
- 154
- Location
- Parkville Mo
- First Name
- Scott
- Vehicle(s)
- 2017 Mustang GT
So has anyone asked Koni about adding Compression adjustments to the SA Shocks/Struts? They did this for me back in the 90s on a set of Struts I was using on a Fox body. Having an independent compression adjustment is extremely useful.
Regarding compression damping on SA shocks/struts, there is a slight change to these characteristics as Rebound settings are changed. Noticed this on the S197 mustang I used to have and the SA Konis I have on my RX7 road race car. Kind of sucks because increasing rebound to deal with high speed to low speed braking has a negative effect on transition feel. This is more of a problem on my RX7....
Regarding compression damping on SA shocks/struts, there is a slight change to these characteristics as Rebound settings are changed. Noticed this on the S197 mustang I used to have and the SA Konis I have on my RX7 road race car. Kind of sucks because increasing rebound to deal with high speed to low speed braking has a negative effect on transition feel. This is more of a problem on my RX7....
boardkat
CAMtard
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2013
- Threads
- 45
- Messages
- 900
- Reaction score
- 569
- Location
- Lake Oswego, OR
- Vehicle(s)
- '15 GT
oh there's compression adjustment alright - it's just tied directly to the changes you make to rebound. a shock dyno is your friend if you want to know the impact of turning the knob.
yes. i had an set of OTS SA yellows converted to DA on my ITR back in 2009 by truechoice. including the shocks, it cost ~$1800 back then (standalone set of SA was ~$600 iirc), and they valved the shocks the way i wanted them.
edit: i also bought a set of used S197 koni yellows that another autox'er had converted to DA back in 2014. according to the invoice he provided me from proparts, it was also ~$1800 for the conversion.
DickR
Well-Known Member
I just returned from a "test drive" in my GT PP with 301A and MagneRide where my focus was on 10A shifting with the paddles. Shifter in S. Paddle downshifts while braking or coasting are fast and rev matching is probably at least as close as a skilled manual driver can do with double clutching in "I'm in a hurry and using heel and toe braking and throttle blipping" mode. Most of my testing was in Track mode and I'm not positive whether I tested in the other modes but if I did the results were the same.
Single gear down shifts, such as 3 - 2 in the 40 to 45 and maybe 50 mph range are quick and smooth and the engine responds immediately and smoothly when the driver applies the throttle. I did try some as fast as I can move the paddle for "many gears" downshifts from ridiculously high gears at roughly 50 - 60 mph and even though the display said I was in 2nd there was a brief lag before the throttle would respond. Again this did not seem to happen with 3 - 2 shifts.
It would be interesting to try the shifter in S and the drive mode in Track on an open track or suitable back road without using the paddles. There are hints after short bursts of "aggressive but not suitable here" ;) driving that the trans/ecu calibration will do some pretty good stuff when given a place to run with a driver who can/will drive hard.
I also tried to compare brake dive and acceleration hood lift/rear squat in various MagneRide drive modes. Frankly on the street it was hard to see or feel any difference even in 2nd or 3rd gear acceleration. I'm pretty sure I can feel the quick side to side steering response improve significantly in Track mode.
I did finally try drag mode once. Yes the shifts are FIRM and fast.
Single gear down shifts, such as 3 - 2 in the 40 to 45 and maybe 50 mph range are quick and smooth and the engine responds immediately and smoothly when the driver applies the throttle. I did try some as fast as I can move the paddle for "many gears" downshifts from ridiculously high gears at roughly 50 - 60 mph and even though the display said I was in 2nd there was a brief lag before the throttle would respond. Again this did not seem to happen with 3 - 2 shifts.
It would be interesting to try the shifter in S and the drive mode in Track on an open track or suitable back road without using the paddles. There are hints after short bursts of "aggressive but not suitable here" ;) driving that the trans/ecu calibration will do some pretty good stuff when given a place to run with a driver who can/will drive hard.
I also tried to compare brake dive and acceleration hood lift/rear squat in various MagneRide drive modes. Frankly on the street it was hard to see or feel any difference even in 2nd or 3rd gear acceleration. I'm pretty sure I can feel the quick side to side steering response improve significantly in Track mode.
I did finally try drag mode once. Yes the shifts are FIRM and fast.
Last edited:
DickR
Well-Known Member
Just to be clear, the "ride" aspects of MagneRide absolutely are noticeably firmer in Track than in normal or sport+. Differences between normal and Sport+ are hard to feel. On my local bumpy road comparison road even Track handles the bumps well. Unfortunately due to a big new development this particular "test road" is no longer viable.
DickR
Well-Known Member
I posted most of this info in a general thread and am repeating it here for autocross relevancy with a couple of modifications.
In order to get used to the paddles for autocrossing (1st - 3rd gears) I tried using the paddles in stop and go low speed surface street driving today. Due to the traffic throttle was very light even at several thousand rpm. The shifts were not quick or pleasant. Frankly it was as if the calibration engineers were shouting in my ears saying "you fool . . . paddles aren't intended for tendered footed driving conditions in traffic. That's what D, or S if you want to play boy racer, are for."
Based on what I observed today in traffic up shifts in those conditions were slow compared to more aggressive situations and down shifts were rough. Maybe very much like Mark and Des observed with the dog leg start. At least with the GT it appears that starting in 2nd may be the best approach when you won't be able to be aggressive in 1st before short shifting to 2nd.
In order to get used to the paddles for autocrossing (1st - 3rd gears) I tried using the paddles in stop and go low speed surface street driving today. Due to the traffic throttle was very light even at several thousand rpm. The shifts were not quick or pleasant. Frankly it was as if the calibration engineers were shouting in my ears saying "you fool . . . paddles aren't intended for tendered footed driving conditions in traffic. That's what D, or S if you want to play boy racer, are for."
Based on what I observed today in traffic up shifts in those conditions were slow compared to more aggressive situations and down shifts were rough. Maybe very much like Mark and Des observed with the dog leg start. At least with the GT it appears that starting in 2nd may be the best approach when you won't be able to be aggressive in 1st before short shifting to 2nd.
Sponsored