SCCA F-Street Setup. What's Everyone Done so Far?

Discussion in 'Road Course, Track, Autocross, HPDE' started by Areddi, Jun 8, 2015.

  1. DickR

    DickR Well-Known Member

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    Engine off.
     
  2. DickR

    DickR Well-Known Member

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    Engine off for both.
     
  3. DocWalt

    DocWalt Well-Known Member

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    Engine off for me too
     
  4. kz

    kz Well-Known Member

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    Did you make a switch ? I've been running Strano rear bar but all theory about nose heavy RWD car setup says it should be front one if anything. I have little experience in setting car up myself....
     
  5. NightmareMoon

    NightmareMoon Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, running the a front BMR bar on soft right now. With the front bar, Its a bit easier to stomp the gas to shift the weight and settle the car if you over-slow for a corner. Coming out of the corner you still need a healthy dose of throttle discipline, but not quite as much as with the rear Strano bar on medium. I've tried the front bar on medium, but soft feels pretty good right now.

    Honestly the best feeling (for me) is the front BMR bar on soft and the Strano bar on Medium. The car feels really good that way with stock springs and Konis set medium-high, but not exactly FS legal with both bars in there.

    The front bar isn't coming out (ever), so even if I liked the rear setup more, its not changing. The install was almost impossible on just jack stands due to the angles you need to maneuver the bars to get them in/out of the car, and the tight clearances (esp getting to that swaybar bracket bolt that's directly under the #$%@ alternator). so I'd need to take it to a mechanic with a lift to swap front bars if I ever wanted to do that again. The rear bars are really easy to swap, so I'll do that sometimes before and/or after a track day or autox event.

    I'm not really any faster with the front BMR bar than I was with the Strano rear bar. Times (compared to my local competitors) haven't changed a bunch. Its just a little different feel.
     
  6. Whiskey11

    Whiskey11 Kill ALL the Cones!

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    IIRC, Sam recommends the rear bar to keep the front tires on the pavement while accelerating. These cars, when stock, have a tendency to lift the inside front. A stiffer rear bar generally removes that. His rear bar is extremely soft, barely stiffer than stock in the softest setting IIRC.

    The BMR front bar on full soft does promote a little bit of throttle oversteer in high speed elements but can push pretty badly in a slower one if you aren't more patient with the throttle. James Paulson and I did a pretty good job last year showing that the front bar setup is fast (4th and 6th respectively). This year, James is showing it, I potatoed day one pretty bad (although I had the scratch time for 9th place on my first run, just couldn't duplicate it clean). I really think it is the easier bar choice to use because it makes the car more forgiving. The rear bar setup required way too much patience with the throttle... the car has power and torque and being patient with the throttle is annoying IMO!
     
  7. kz

    kz Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Chris. I did read his and yours write ups here and remember you switching to front bar. I put a rear bar on (I had a non-PP car though) because I was complete newb and it seems like a things to do (dumb reasoning) - I spun out enough times to now question whether that was exactly right choice - especially that anyone else that got into my car (decent drivers) spun at least once it, most recently hitting finish cones (double ones) head on and breaking bumper tabs.

    I got '18 and now am back to trying to figure out what is the best way to go. For now, will run it with stock bars.

    Good luck out there today to make some time up.
     
  8. Whiskey11

    Whiskey11 Kill ALL the Cones!

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    I could definitely see the non PP cars needing a rear bar to compensate for the softer rear springs. The PP cars are just a little too twitchy with the rear bar on, even a touch twitchy from the factory, for my driving style. But that's the glory of having the choice for either or!

    Needless to say, James showed again that the front bar setup is competitive. My Co-Driver showed that the front bar is competitive (10th place). Burdette's car was a non-PP car and ran a rear bar. I had the scratch times to finish 8th but couldn't find it out there clean. I also had the video about the bar choice and the difference in data. To me it was pretty clear that the PP cars make their time up in different places. Where I'm coming out of a corner harder than a rear bar setup PP car, he's coming into and carrying that speed through it faster but it takes him longer to get back on the throttle. It REALLY depends on the course, but in my experience, the acceleration zones at Nationals are usually more important than the entry is!

    I'll hopefully have Justin and I's videos done later tonight to upload. I'm debating whether or not to do my fastest scratch time runs or my clean ones... guess it doesn't matter too much! :D
     
  9. NightmareMoon

    NightmareMoon Well-Known Member

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    I need to talk Burdette into running a front bar. He's on the Strano rear, but last I checked he was still running it full soft, which is near stock. Might as well just go to a front bar at that point, IMHO.
     
  10. DickR

    DickR Well-Known Member

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    I used various rear bars and settings with my 2015 GT PP and it was always very hard to keep the rear "stable" in transitions.
    My 2018 GT PP with the oem bar was also unstable in transitions until I changed to a bigger front bar per Mark Daddio's and Sam Strano's recommendation after Mark drove the car at the NJ Pro Solo. With the bigger front bar the car is significantly more stable in transitions but turns in fine (no noticeable increase in understeer). I'm still slow but it isn't the car setup's fault.
     
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  11. Whiskey11

    Whiskey11 Kill ALL the Cones!

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    He has a very good reason for not doing so... his car is not a PP car so it has softer rear springs... I chatted with him at the banquet and we talked about his setup some. Not sure how much detail he wants me to go into, so I'll avoid talking about the specifics too much.
     
  12. kz

    kz Well-Known Member

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    Does someone have top speeds for each gear for '18 manual with 3.73 rear end (and 285/35 tire) ?

    I ran my car today on a local event, week after getting it (still has plastic wrap on passenger floor :) ) , just swapped wheels - no alignment or anything - and it _seems_ that on a tight course could stay in 1st much longer than I did. Digging out of slow corners in 2nd felt painful...
     
  13. DickR

    DickR Well-Known Member

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    Per my spreadsheet using 7400 rpm as the rev limiter for the 18 and 775 rpm/mile for the 285/35x19's:

    1st: 47, 2nd 73, 3rd 108

    The 15 with its 6800 rpm rev limiter was
    1st 38, 2nd 58, 3rd 83

    The 18 auto with 275's is
    1st 34, 2nd 53, 3rd 74, 4th 90 but don't let it hit the limiter before shifting up since it slows the shift significantly.
     
  14. kz

    kz Well-Known Member

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    Thanks a lot Dick ! Guess I really should have tried staying in 1st longer than I did... Driving new car fast was quite a struggle - much different than previous one (gearing, brakes, PP vs. non-PP, suspension).
     
  15. kz

    kz Well-Known Member

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    Are there any other options for reasonably priced and reasonably not-heavy F Street legal wheels for PP car beside Forgestars and OZs (that are on Tirerack but do not take advantage of the offset allowance) ?
     
  16. Dana Pants

    Dana Pants Member

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    It looks like if the SCCA changed the street class offset rule from 7.0 mm to 7.5 mm we would have access to a lot of wheels that are ET45 for the rear. 18x9.5 Enkei PF01 for example. I actually just wrote the SEB requesting exactly that. I don't know how many other people have wrote the SEB about this in the past, but the more the merrier. My letter number is 25464. You might as well write in support https://www.crbscca.com/
     
  17. Dana Pants

    Dana Pants Member

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    More generally....

    I recently acquired a 2018 GT PP1 without Magnaride and am seriously considering an FS build.

    I have some questions:

    Can someone post some pics and commentary about front-tire wear after camber slotting the front struts? I'm trying to gauge how quickly the outside fronts wear out. My current plan is 285 RE-71r square on FS legal wheels.

    Koni Yellows are of course easy to acquire. Is there a go-to source for ultra premium mutli-adjustable FS legal shocks & struts? If so, where did you get them and how much did you pay?

    Is the missing Magnaride regarded as an advantage or disadvantage at this point?

    The front vs rear bar debate: was there ever a conclusion? A month ago I didn't know rear bars were a thing on RWD street class cars, but there is so much understeer stock that I can imagine where it's coming from.

    Also, if you think a 7.5 mm wheel offset allowance would be helpful in street class, please write the SEB about it. I know I do. I already have someone willing to machine 0.5mm off a set of wheels if it comes down to it, but it seems so pointless.
     
  18. kz

    kz Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't the 18" wheel put you with an awful short tire though ? Looks 285/35 is the widest for 18", I know there are wider Rivals... Did you run the numbers to see what the max speed will be with the '18 gearing ?

    I actually had a set of Axis Model 5 wheels (19"/9", ET45) for the old non-PP car. Found 9.5" version of them with 47.5mm offset at Tirerack closeout for really cheap, bought two and have FS legal set for PP car this way.
     
  19. kz

    kz Well-Known Member

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    I have -2.0 degrees right now, probably over 100 runs on this set. Not horrible IMO, can send you pics if you're interested. Did 1mm as the manual allows, it doesn't really give that much.

    I would risk saying disadvantage. Compared to Konis, Magnaride is magical.

    You will have way more experienced people answer here (Dick, Chris J., Boardkat) but I ran car fully stock (short of wheels / tires) after getting it a month ago - it would not turn. Put the rear Strano bar on which I had from previous car and it drove IMO much better. I might experiment with putting front one, put for nearest future, staying with it. Note I ran it on the local event, with stupid tight turns. And it's not that foreign concept, talked to Danny Popp who aligned my car, he said if it pushes, put a rear bar on. I kinda trust him :)
     
  20. Dana Pants

    Dana Pants Member

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    GPS top speed completely stock is 76 mph in 2nd gear. Running the diameter numbers gives me 67.8 mph with short 285 30 R18 inch tires. Also lowers the car 1.5 inches.
     
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