S650 vs Camaro SS 1LE

[WildHorse]

Chevy screwed up by taking away their only muscle car and turning it into a track specialist.

Dumbest thing I every read (no-offence). GM hit a home-run with it. And don't kid yerself.. it's fast in a straight line.

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[Joshinator99]

Dumbest thing I every read (no-offence). GM hit a home-run with it. And don't kid yerself.. it's fast in a straight line.

Ok, agree to disagree. You realize I own both cars? Including a 9.5 second 2017 Camaro SS right…? I think I know a bit more about the Camaro than you do. ;)

The Camaro rides much harder, and with less visibility and a narrow trunk opening vs the Mustang. That’s makes it tough for the average muscle car owner. I don’t care as I have other cars I can drive but most people do not. Chevy put way too much into that car that the average muscle car owner will never need, including dual auxiliary radiators, a second transmission cooler, differential coolers, etc. No one driving 0-60 needs that and it added weight, complexity, and cost. My wife hates driving in the Camaro but loves driving in the Mustang, which tells you a lot about the average buyer. GM made a great track car… and now they’re making nothing because it didn’t sell.

 

[WildHorse]

Ok, agree to disagree. You realize I own both cars? Including a 9.5 second 2017 Camaro SS right…? I think I know a bit more about the Camaro than you do.

I'm sure you do. But we're taking showroom stock here, no ?

 

[Joshinator99]

I'm sure you do. But we're taking showroom stock here, no ?

I just edited my above post that should help explain why I think the way I do.

 

[Hack]

Ok, agree to disagree. You realize I own both cars? Including a 9.5 second 2017 Camaro SS right…? I think I know a bit more about the Camaro than you do. ;)

The Camaro rides much harder, and with less visibility and a narrow trunk opening vs the Mustang. That’s makes it tough for the average muscle car owner. I don’t care as I have other cars I can drive but most people do. Chevy put way to much into that car that the average muscle car owner will never need, including dual auxiliary radiators, a second transmission cooler, differential coolers, etc. No one driving 0-60 needs that and it added weight complexity and cost. My wife hates driving in the Camaro but loves driving in the Mustang, which tells you a lot about the average buyer. GM made a great track car… and now they’re making nothing because it didn’t sell.

I think there are pluses and minuses to both. If you ignore emissions and what is legal, you can get a lot from a Camaro with a (fairly easy and cheap) camshaft swap.

Yes I do agree with you GM prioritized performance more than comfort and usability. The enthusiasts love that, but a lot of people don't.

 

[Joshinator99]

I think there are pluses and minuses to both. If you ignore emissions and what is legal, you can get a lot from a Camaro with a (fairly easy and cheap) camshaft swap.

Yes I do agree with you GM prioritized performance more than comfort and usability. The enthusiasts love that, but a lot of people don't.

And keep in mind for such a great performance car, it sucks to modify. I have over $10K just into my fuel system and it’s out of steam again… all because GM didn’t give us port. The pistons are too weak for much over 600 WHP, and you don’t get a wideband either! So every tweak means a change in tune because the car cannot adjust at WOT.

So yes, great chassis! But many reasons why the Mustang sold and the Camaro did not.

 

[WildHorse]

GM made a great track car… and now they’re making nothing because it didn’t sell.

and dodge is going all electric, and not because there ICE cars didn't sell.

 

[Joshinator99]

and dodge is going all electric, and not because there ICE cars didn't sell.

True, but Dodge was working off a 20 year old platform too for what that’s worth. I’m sure there were going to be some significant engineering and tooling upgrades needed in the near further so they probably just chose to take the EV path that our government is jamming down their throat…

That said, I agree with your point….I think they’re nuts for doing it!

 

[Kachow]

Agree with Joshinator here. I contemplated adding more power to my 1SS1LE, it was expensive for minimal gains. Decided to leave stock.

Compared to my GT350, it was VERY similar in performance around a track and costs a little less than half of what I paid for the 350.

You simply can not argue the price to performance ratio with the 1LEs.

However, it is really track car. The reason it didn't sell is unfortunately, we are the minority here. The masses want a comfortable car, bigger trunk opening, better visiblity etc. Around a track, the 1LE was is a beast but day to day - eh. Its limits were too high for the street and the motor, while has a ton of torque all over, is boring. Doesn't sound that great IMO too.

I will say the whole visibility thing is overblown IMO. You get used to it very quickly. Also, sports car. My 1LE over 3 years with 10+ track events never had one issue. Great cars. I advocate for anyone who wants to get into tracking, they check them out. Right before COVID I picked one up for less than 40k with 800 miles on, 2019. Now they have increased, of course. You get all the coolers, recaros, Supercar3 tires, alcantara wheel (better than 350), shifter, tremec, list goes on. GM nailed that car in terms of performance for an enthusiast.

 

[newmoon]

I think there are pluses and minuses to both. If you ignore emissions and what is legal, you can get a lot from a Camaro with a (fairly easy and cheap) camshaft swap.

Yes I do agree with you GM prioritized performance more than comfort and usability. The enthusiasts love that, but a lot of people don't.

I wouldn't consider a camshaft swap in a LS either easy or cheap, there are a lot of other associated performance parts needed to make that combination work.

 

[JetGray_Mach1]

I wouldn't consider a camshaft swap in a LS either easy or cheap, there are a lot of other associated performance parts needed to make that combination work.

WOW you have had them all based on your sig! I am curious which is your favorite sounding out of all your cars on your sig?

 

[Hack]

I wouldn't consider a camshaft swap in a LS either easy or cheap, there are a lot of other associated performance parts needed to make that combination work.

What I didn't say specifically and took for granted everyone would assume I meant is that it's a lot easier and cheaper to swap cams in a pushrod engine compared to dual overhead cams. Compared to the Mustang where you can't get big gains from camshafts, you can in a pushrod engine. Just changing cams (and springs) in an old 302 back in the day completely changed the character of the engine.

 

[shogun32]

in an old 302 back in the day completely changed the character of the engine.

Sure but with the coyote Ford didn't leave much of anything on the table. It has nothing to do with single or quad overhead. Ford of yore was just lazy/cheap and perfectly fine "half assin" their engines.

 

[Hack]

Sure but with the coyote Ford didn't leave much of anything on the table. It has nothing to do with single or quad overhead. Ford of yore was just lazy/cheap and perfectly fine "half assin" their engines.

100% agree. And LS engines aren't exactly half assed, but if you ignore emissions requirements you can get a lot more out of them with a better camshaft.

 

[newmoon]

WOW you have had them all based on your sig! I am curious which is your favorite sounding out of all your cars on your sig?

LOL I know, too many. My top 3.
1. My present 2020 GT500
2. 2013 Boss 302
3. 2004 Cobra Terminator

All three cars were special in their own way and offered excitement in driving even when not at full throttle. If I had a bigger garage and more $$$ I'd have them all.

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