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S650 Mustang Opinions/Predictions

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MRGTX

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Keep liking. That was a technical demonstration, not a money maker like base cars are.
You're absolutely right...but it looks like they were good for several lbs of rotating/usprung mass...which as you know is incredibly impactful on all aspects of performance and ride quality to boot. Saving that weight is really valuable.

If they could figure out how to mass produce these things, they could become a lot cheaper.

Remember when the Corolla came standard with LED headlights? That was a pretty big deal back in 2012/13.
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c-rizzle

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In addition to the use of light weight materials (dropping ~200lbs would be huge), I'd also like to see CF wheels available on lower models.
CF wheels would cost $10k+-. Its not really feasible for a Mustang in any package besides a GT350 or GT500.
And that's really the main part of the $13k difference between 350 & 350R.
The aluminum strut tower brace & bigger spoilers don't really add anything extra cost wise.


What would be nice is:
1. 2-piece rotors on the PP or track pack cars - GT350 has them and the extra cost is feasible $1000+-
2. Some lightweight forged 19" wheels with PP or track pack. Probably would only cost Ford $500+-
3. Aluminum 1-piece drive shafts $500+-

+$2,000 for an "advanced PP or Track Pack"

The 3 above items together would save about 80 lbs. -10+ lbs per wheels & -4+ lbs per rotor & -20 lbs for the driveshaft. AND all of it is rotation mass, and 60 lbs of it is unsprung weight.

Those items alone should make the stock GT beat the comparable Camaro in all facets.
 

15wile

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Since we all want lower weight whilst keeping the cost down, I'll say it again - the car is too big. It's ridiculous, really, when you consider how useless the back seats are. The car could shrink, dimensionally, by a good percentage and thus realize a proportionate reduction in weight without expensive materials. They could also increase interior room at the same time.
No, the car isn't too big. In fact, IMHO, it's precisely the right size. I don't see how you can decrease a car's size and increase interior room. You *might* be able to take some of the nose down a bit. There's some room in the engine bay even with the Coyote. I don't see any other place you could shrink the car down and maintain its current interior volume, seating, and trunk space. The new Camaro is an exercise in what happens when you screw with that too much.

Combine this lower weight with a modest power bump and you have not only a much quicker car but a car that's more rewarding to drive for those of us how could give two shits about drag racing.
Power bump would be nice, and easy to achieve given the possibility of DI, or applying one of the Power Packs from the factory, or just raiding the GT350 parts bin a bit. Compared to the competition we're down what... 20hp and 55/lb-ft? Hard to make up the torque difference with a smaller motor, but easy to meet and *exceed* the horsepower with a little trickery. A 475/420 Coyote would do the trick well enough.

Smaller car equals lighter car equals faster and better driving car.
Not always, and not in all respects. If Ford shrinks this car any smaller than the S197 dimensions, they would lose my business. IMHO the Challenger is too big, and the Camaro too small... the Mustang is just right.
 
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Petroleum Jesus

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Tall deck height → higher hood line. Might as well (re)design around a bigger bore from the get-go.


Norm
Increasing the deck height by .3 in would allow for a displacement of over 5.4L using the standard 3.63in coyote bore for a total engine height differential of .15 inches. That would still fit under the lower GT350 hood profile. Using Voodoo bores and an 1/8th of an inch more deck height, 5.8L would be attainable and it would still fit the current body.
 

Norm Peterson

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Only if you're willing to run a ~4" stroke and a rod to stroke length ratio below 1.5 to 1. Long term, that's likely a less durable configuration and may be rpm-limited. That may be OK in a drag race motor (whose enthusiasts are going to go forced induction anyway), not so good in an engine intended for extended stints between peak torque and redline.

Maintaining the rod:stroke at the 5.0's 5.933/3.647 out to a 3.98" stroke means 6.47", so you need 0.5*(3.98-3.647)+(6.47-5.933) or about 0.71" taller deck.


Norm
 
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Spartan

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No, the car isn't too big. In fact, IMHO, it's precisely the right size. I don't see how you can decrease a car's size and increase interior room. You *might* be able to take some of the nose down a bit. There's some room in the engine bay even with the Coyote. I don't see any other place you could shrink the car down and maintain its current interior volume, seating, and trunk space. The new Camaro is an exercise in what happens when you screw with that too much.
Agreed on the nose I think you could shave about about 4 inches off the front by redesigning the fascia/splitter/lights, etc. I also think you could improve visibility by doing what they did with the 350 which is lower the hood by 1" and lower/get rid of the bulge.

I wouldn't touch a thing past the front window back.
 

jtmat

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I know a lot of people want smaller (and lighter)... but, at least for the vert, I hope they keep the same trunk space.

I live in a condo and only have one parking space... so this is my only car. As it stands, the trunk space is perfect for the trips I've taken (one I took for week).
 

Stuntman

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I wouldn't mind if the rear seat area shrunk a little (to be useless like the Camaro or a 911), but agree with keeping the trunk room.

I wouldn't mind if the car lost 1.5" of shoulder room per side to shrink the car 3" to be the width of the S197 while having the flared fenders of the GT350. Or with some engineering they could probably refine the design of the doors to be thinner to not affect interior room.
 

15GTCA

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I wouldn't mind if the car lost 1.5" of shoulder room per side to shrink the car 3" to be the width of the S197 while having the flared fenders of the GT350. Or with some engineering they could probably refine the design of the doors to be thinner to not affect interior room.
The thing to remember is that Ford has to meet impact standards for a crash and having a smaller crush space will hurt crash protection both on the sides and the front. I doubt that they could make the doors thinner and still meet the 5 star protection that they have now.
 
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Petroleum Jesus

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Only if you're willing to run a ~4" stroke and a rod to stroke length ratio below 1.5 to 1. Long term, that's likely a less durable configuration and may be rpm-limited. That may be OK in a drag race motor (whose enthusiasts are going to go forced induction anyway), not so good in an engine intended for extended stints between peak torque and redline.

Maintaining the rod:stroke at the 5.0's 5.933/3.647 out to a 3.98" stroke means 6.47", so you need 0.5*(3.98-3.647)+(6.47-5.933) or about 0.71" taller deck.


Norm

Norm
Sounds like you did your homework. I was way off. So, .71" at 45-degrees makes for a .5" taller block casting. Would anything else need to be up-sized or would I be right to assume that the engine would grow 1" wider and .5" taller at the highest point of the coil pack cover? ...and if my assumption is correct, would it fit in the current engine bay including clearance for headers and whatnot?
 

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Stroked84

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I wouldn't mind if the rear seat area shrunk a little (to be useless like the Camaro or a 911), but agree with keeping the trunk room.

I wouldn't mind if the car lost 1.5" of shoulder room per side to shrink the car 3" to be the width of the S197 while having the flared fenders of the GT350. Or with some engineering they could probably refine the design of the doors to be thinner to not affect interior room.
I'm all for shrinking the back seat (hell I'd happily ditch it all together), but shrinking any front seat dimension is a no go. The cockpit feel in the S550 is great. The only thing I would change would be turning the center controls towards the driver a bit more. (Similar to a Stingray or Mk4 Supra cockpit feel.)

5. 10-speed auto should be standard for automatics. But maybe consider a dual-clutch auto instead, or as an upgrade option over the regular auto.

6. Moderate redesign of the body. The S550 is good, don't get me wrong -- but I'd hate to see Ford make the same mistake as GM, and produce a 7th gen too similar to the 6th in appearance. Enough to tell the difference, not enough to f*ck with the formula too much.
Re #5: The 10r80 is brand new (and pretty solid on paper), why would they put anything other than this in future Mustangs?

Re #6: This is exactly my concern. I love the style of the S550, but everyone clamoring for Ford to not change a whole lot with the S650 better be careful. Chevy decided not to change a whole lot on the Camaro, cosmetically, and look at the response they got. I wouldn't be against Ford evolving the S550 style lines into an S650, but I better be able to tell them apart at first glance.
 

Stormtrooper5.0

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Lol and all im hoping for is that they have a cheap ass base v8 with a manual transmission for me to trade up to.
 
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Petroleum Jesus

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This is exactly my concern. I love the style of the S550, but everyone clamoring for Ford to not change a whole lot with the S650 better be careful. Chevy decided not to change a whole lot on the Camaro, cosmetically, and look at the response they got. I wouldn't be against Ford evolving the S550 style lines into an S650, but I better be able to tell them apart at first glance.
I don't think people are as afraid of the styling changing as they are the proportions. The S550 will go down in automotive history as one of the greatest GTs of it's era. In 40 years, a remake of gone is sixty seconds will spur a massive market blitz for S550 shelby look-alikes. Eleanor was a 67 fastback, and was an instant classic. The 69 fastback had some major styling changes that made it an instant classic as well. The car was remarkably similar is proportion, but very different in presence. The S650 should follow a similar formula.

In essence, make it fresh but don't break the formula. Chances are the S650 will never feel as special as the S550, but it can be special in it's own right.
 

Topnotch

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The size could shrink a little I think...take 3" of the top 2" of the overhangs...If you get the change to see a Vanquish up close it looks smaller than it is because of how the proportions work.


Stang: 188″ L x 75″ W x 54″ H
Aston: 186″ L x 81″ W x 51″ H

Plus Mustang is now the same size as the new Camaro give or take an inch...
comp.jpg
 

Twin Turbo

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As long as they manage to keep interior and trunk space the same as today, any exterior shrinkage would be welcome :thumbsup:
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