S650 Mustang Opinions/Predictions

[Norm Peterson]

A corvette does have a similar package. However, it uses a modular transmission (Tremec 6070) which sits forward of the rear track, sandwiched between the coupler and the rear differential which is directly in line with axis of the rear wheels. It lacks the direct drive accesories describes in my concept entirely. A true transaxle can be inverted so that the gearbox actually sits behind the differential gearing, pushing 120lbs back another 16 inches or so and saving ~15 lbs of cast casing material from the integration of the assemblies. Factor in the displacement of roughly 100 lbs of accessories and battery behind the rear wheels and your bias is probably moving beyond 50/50. An extra 200lbs over the rear wheels would do wonders for rear traction, as well as overall handling characteristics.

I'm not so sure about that last. As you move weight distribution rearward by moving front weight all the way to the rear, you're increasing PMOI. Which in turn decreases yaw response (think turn-in, steering response, and "nimbleness"). Putting the big masses at the two ends is a good tool for keeping a very lightweight car from being too twitchy, but you could take 500 lbs out of a Mustang and it still wouldn't be anywhere near "very lightweight".

Pretty sure I'd rather start with a 52/48 car with lower PMOI than a 50/50 car with a higher PMOI. Dyed-in-the-wool drag race fans would likely choose differently.


Norm

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[MadCow]

It is for this reason that I believe it is more likely that the coyote will gain displacement, not lose, and certainly not be replaced by an EB V6.

The current coyote does not have enough displacement to make variable displacement an effective option, and the current coyote does not have the torque potential of the competition. A 5.4L/5.8L coyote with variable displacement could be the solution to both problems and I'm betting this is the route Ford will take.

The coyote can't get any bigger. The bores are already thin as paper, even with the 5.2 Voodoo block the bores are thin. And not much stroke to be had without pulling the pistons out the bottom of the block. The coyote is a great motor but it suffers from the same shortcomings of its father the 4.6. Ford would have to make a tall deck version to get those kind of cubes.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Tall deck height → higher hood line. Might as well (re)design around a bigger bore from the get-go.


Norm

 

[PatrickGT]

I'd be thrilled if they firmed up the suspension bushings and shocks and removed 5-700lbs. That's really all I want at this point, and I can do the suspension myself.

 

[15wile]

My recommendation list for S650:

1. Shave some weight. Aluminum is probably the only real place this can be accomplished. No Carbon Fiber (except on special models, maybe). I don't want to pay for that sh*t.

2. Keep dimensions roughly the same. Current 2+2 layout and trunk size is good. Don't f*ck with it, please.

3. The Ecoboost is a mixed bag. I think they should make it less mixed. Maybe offer 3.5 NA V6 Motor as base (with a little extra love), 2.7 V6 Ecoboost as mid-grade option, and either a modified 5.0 or a 5.2 CPC for the GT. GT should have 475hp, at least. Maybe closer to 500. I bet the competition will want to push close to 500hp by then, Ford should be ready.

4. Give us the Tremec 6-speed instead of the Getrag.

5. 10-speed auto should be standard for automatics. But maybe consider a dual-clutch auto instead, or as an upgrade option over the regular auto.

6. Moderate redesign of the body. The S550 is good, don't get me wrong -- but I'd hate to see Ford make the same mistake as GM, and produce a 7th gen too similar to the 6th in appearance. Enough to tell the difference, not enough to f*ck with the formula too much.

7. Get rid of remaining chrome laminate over plastic parts. Sh*t is already bubbling on the door handles. Only part of the interior that pisses me off. Either use plastic, or use metal, don't try to combine them like that please. I don't mind when Ford is a little cheap on the base models, but don't try to hide the cheap with laminate, please. Just makes it worse.

8. Have magneride OPTION for GT.

9. Give the rich guys plenty more option packages with doodads and widgets. Continue to offer stripper base V8 for cheap f*cks like me.

10. Active exhaust option.

 

[Twin Turbo]

A few things that keep cropping up in this thread:

10-speed auto
Magneride option
DI/Dual injection 5.0 Coyote
Active exhaust

I'll be disappointed if these don't make the '18MY refresh, never mind the next-gen S650 for the '21MY !!

 

[15wile]

A few things that keep cropping up in this thread:

10-speed auto
Magneride option
DI/Dual injection 5.0 Coyote
Active exhaust

I'll be disappointed if these don't make the '18MY refresh, never mind the next-gen S650 for the '21MY !!

I think the 10-speed auto will probably be an upgrade option for '18. Maybe standard for '21-ish. I don't know if the magneride option will make it. I bet '18 shows the Coyote getting some kind of love from Ford. Whether DI or something else is an open question. Active exhaust... no idea. But, to be fair, active exhaust is the least important of these. Swapping the exhaust isn't too hard.

 

[Spartan]

A few things that keep cropping up in this thread:

10-speed auto
Magneride option
DI/Dual injection 5.0 Coyote
Active exhaust

I'll be disappointed if these don't make the '18MY refresh, never mind the next-gen S650 for the '21MY !!

3 of the 4 I think make it on the '18. The transmission is kinda confirmed at this point.

For the next gen, I wouldn't be surprised to see AWD offered on the EB models. Would make them even more similar to an A5/S5. With the news that Dodge is doing that with the Challenger...it's something Ford needs to consider to sell more Mustangs that can be DD in bad weather.

 

[Norm Peterson]

15wile - for the most part, I like your list. But from what I gather about Chevy's dual mode/NPP exhaust option, I think I'd rather have it under manual control only. That way, when you first fire it up at oh-dark-thirty it doesn't have to wake up in 'loud mode' and stay there until the controller shuts those flow paths off.

As to DI, I think what you really want is a combined DI + port injector setup. Intake valves stay cleaner longer, and the DI injectors wouldn't need to accommodate quite as wide a range of fuel flow from idle to max.


Norm

 

[MRGTX]

I think there have been some great suggestions in this thread...but I suspect that a lot of this will be altered by what we learn about the impending 2018 refresh.

In addition to the use of light weight materials (dropping ~200lbs would be huge), I'd also like to see CF wheels available on lower models.

So long as some naturally aspirated V8 is available, I'd be happy. The current Coyote is a spectacular motor.

I'd like to see lower hood/belt line (probably not possible with safety requirements), accommodations for 305 tires. Would it be asking too much to have the car engineered around 18" wheels? I just can't get used to 20" wheels.

 

[EricSMG]

200lbs would be huge - that's VERY obvious from behind the wheel. I've owned this delta simultaneously for many years and it's dramatic.

Since we all want lower weight whilst keeping the cost down, I'll say it again - the car is too big. It's ridiculous, really, when you consider how useless the back seats are. The car could shrink, dimensionally, by a good percentage and thus realize a proportionate reduction in weight without expensive materials. They could also increase interior room at the same time.

Combine this lower weight with a modest power bump and you have not only a much quicker car but a car that's more rewarding to drive for those of us how could give two shits about drag racing.

Smaller car equals lighter car equals faster and better driving car.

 

[nastang87xx]

I'd also like to see CF wheels available on lower models.

Keep liking. That was a technical demonstration, not a money maker like base cars are.

 

[seth21w]

I would simply like a tremec 6 speed, my getrag is ok dont get me wrong i just think its the weakest link on a mustang, camaro has a tremec, so does gt350. I could care less how many gears you slap in a auto, when 18my comes out with a tremec trans then i will be interested.:amen:

 

[PatrickGT]

200lbs would be huge - that's VERY obvious from behind the wheel. I've owned this delta simultaneously for many years and it's dramatic.

Since we all want lower weight whilst keeping the cost down, I'll say it again - the car is too big. It's ridiculous, really, when you consider how useless the back seats are. The car could shrink, dimensionally, by a good percentage and thus realize a proportionate reduction in weight without expensive materials. They could also increase interior room at the same time.

Combine this lower weight with a modest power bump and you have not only a much quicker car but a car that's more rewarding to drive for those of us how could give two shits about drag racing.

Smaller car equals lighter car equals faster and better driving car.

Yep, my car feels like it was produced as a 5/4 scale model lol

 

[Chameleon]

More TQ please.

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