zackmd1
Well-Known Member
Dump the stock seats to.... Replacing the seats with aftermarket options can drop close to 50lbs.... The stock seats are heavy at close to 50lbs a piece....
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S650 Mustang launches in 2022 as 2023MY reveals Ford Linkedin post
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Bikeman315
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zackmd1
Well-Known Member
Haha no! They just need a seat designer/engineer that can make a comfortable seat and not have it weigh 50lbs!Maybe Ford should just start making one off custom cars for everyone.
shogun32
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That's how they got started. Every car was custom. It just so happened everyone wanted the same shade of black. Koons Sterling VA has one. It even has a manual transmission.Maybe Ford should just start making one off custom cars for everyone.
Bikeman315
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Hopefully not a MT82
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S550Boss
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Ok, to summarize:
- S650 is a reworked S550 (as that was a reworked S197, as that was a dumbed-down DEW98 - all share hardpoints), whose primary purpose is to add room for a small battery pack for a gas-hybrid engine, and secondarily to update the interior in major ways and suspension in minor ways. Not an "all new" product but "some new".
- S750 is based on the D6 platform (Aviator and Explorer), shortened and narrowed for the Mustang (*not* Challenger size as ridiculous rumors declared), offering all the benefits of sharing the D6 platform including it's well-integrated hybrid battery pack and the weight-saving aluminum front shock/strut tower architecture. That also means the same rear suspension, although up front it's an open question if it will use the Explorer's struts (cheap) or the Aviators double A-arm (preferred). This could even be built on the same assembly line as the Aviator/Explorer, as Flat Rock is raising it's all-electric production in the long term. This is, finally, the "all new Mustang", since architecturally it shares nothing with it's predecessor - although it won't necessarily offer all-new drivetrains (there would likely be carryover at first, a Ford-typical budget workaround).
- S650 is a reworked S550 (as that was a reworked S197, as that was a dumbed-down DEW98 - all share hardpoints), whose primary purpose is to add room for a small battery pack for a gas-hybrid engine, and secondarily to update the interior in major ways and suspension in minor ways. Not an "all new" product but "some new".
- S750 is based on the D6 platform (Aviator and Explorer), shortened and narrowed for the Mustang (*not* Challenger size as ridiculous rumors declared), offering all the benefits of sharing the D6 platform including it's well-integrated hybrid battery pack and the weight-saving aluminum front shock/strut tower architecture. That also means the same rear suspension, although up front it's an open question if it will use the Explorer's struts (cheap) or the Aviators double A-arm (preferred). This could even be built on the same assembly line as the Aviator/Explorer, as Flat Rock is raising it's all-electric production in the long term. This is, finally, the "all new Mustang", since architecturally it shares nothing with it's predecessor - although it won't necessarily offer all-new drivetrains (there would likely be carryover at first, a Ford-typical budget workaround).
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Yep, that certainly seems to be the most accurate summary, given the limited information we have. Of course, one thing we don't know for sure is how long S650 will run for before the CD6/S750 debuts.....although this could match up to the rumors circulating about a year ago that the "all new" Mustang wouldn't debut until as late as the '27/'28 model year. Many of us questioned this at the time, asserting that we found it hard to believe S550 would run from '15-'28MY.
It was also interesting that Autocar (see the other recent thread) seem to think the hybrid car is achievable as Ford will utilise the CD6 (Explorer/Aviator) architecture which already uses hybrid tech. They even referenced the V8-hybrid patent.......although what they didn't state is that the patent is for a different form of hybridization with electric motors powering the front wheels (the CD6 architecture obviously offers all wheel drive without the need for a hybrid setup)
It was also interesting that Autocar (see the other recent thread) seem to think the hybrid car is achievable as Ford will utilise the CD6 (Explorer/Aviator) architecture which already uses hybrid tech. They even referenced the V8-hybrid patent.......although what they didn't state is that the patent is for a different form of hybridization with electric motors powering the front wheels (the CD6 architecture obviously offers all wheel drive without the need for a hybrid setup)
zackmd1
Well-Known Member
My personal opinion is that CD6 is out and has been out for a long time and that everyone still referencing it is just reusing old info.... S650 is a retooled S550 because they realized it would be cheaper and they could still achieve most of their performance goals with a modified S550 platform. S750 might be similar to CD6 but because of the large amount of time before release, that could all change.....
It would be very easy for Ford to utilize the spare tire storage in the trunk for a 1-2kw battery and bolt up the electrified 10 speed to a 5.0 or 2.3 in the current S550. S650 might be where that AWD hybrid system and PHEV systems come into play since that would require a bit more modification to the front K member and suspension and require larger dedicated battery storage.
martinjlm
Retired from GM
I agree with most everything you’ve said here except the battery location and the likelihood of a PHEV. Since the battery will likely be less than 2 kWh (it’s 1.3 kWh in Explorer) it will likely go under the floor under the rear seat, just like Explorer. You can see below a 1.3kWh lithium ion battery is not very big. The Mustang hybrid battery would likely be a bit larger, assuming Ford goes with a higher powered eMotor to provide more launch assist. Explorer eMotor is 35 kW. 40 - 50 kW would probably be a good play for Mustang.
I doubt a PHEV because that’s where you get into serious packaging requirements for a larger (10 - 15 kWh) battery pack and also packaging for the power electronics. You also add a lot of weight with a PHEV. Not impossible, but I’d put the likelihood below 50%.
Just my own personal reading of the tea leaves.
zackmd1
Well-Known Member
I thought about that but there isn't a lot of extra room under the floorboards of the current mustang. It's actually fairly flat so having a battery pack of that size might require modification. The spare tire area is already existing and basically not utilized on the majority of mustangs sold. Either way, packaging a sufficient battery for the mild hybrid won't be much of a challenge in the current vehicle.
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zackmd1
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I actually wouldn't mind a mid engine variant....Yep. The new mid engine stang is gonna be as sweet as the C8
S550Boss
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No doubt the CD6 team could go for an optimum battery location since the platform was 100% clean-sheet (how often does Ford do that - and we've had two in the same year with the C2). An all-new platform is expensive, and it's modular as it was intended right from the start for use in multiple product lines. Lots of design elements on it I like, especially the double A-arm front suspension (only on the Aviator; the Explorer gets ye olde cheap strut).
But in the S650, since it does indeed appear to be an adaptation of S550, the battery could well go in the trunk, as it does in the CD4 MKZ/Fusion Hybrid. Note that this does not affect the seat location, which is good in CD4 but really lousy anyway in S550. It would take a couple of inches out of the passthru because of the height of the battery pack (but look how thin that pack is in CD6 compared to CD4 and earlier tech).
This CD4 hybrid tech is old tech now, several years old, so the Mustangs battery unit would be smaller. There would also be lines for it's temperature control and the 300-volt electrical lines that are also not shown below. The electric motor would be incorporated into the 10-speed, using the off-the-shelf Hybrid Explorer/Aviator transmission and controller architecture.
Which gas engine would be used is an open question... could be the existing 2.3, Ford's new hybrid 2.5 or maybe even the hybrid V-6 shared with the upcoming F-150 Hybrid. All TBD.
As to the idea of the V-8 AWD hybrid, I find that very very difficult to believe in any variant of this old platform - the hard points have been pretty much fixed from DEW98 all the way to S550 - it would cost too much just for the ROI on a single model. And if you don't think Ford had budget issues before COVID-19 (already having to lay off 12,000 staff), imagine the budget now. Things are going to be different in this new reality and for certain the biggest all-hands push is to get both of the Broncos out (both already delayed) since each will be far more strategic than the Mustang - and higher volume and much better margin too.The Mustang Hybrid makes a strategic statement, too, but's hardly high volume - and industry analysts won't be all over Ford if it's late (unlike the Mach-E, which if it doesn't go into production this year - and do so issue-free - will severely impact Ford's image which is already in pretty bad shape).
(yea, I know I am mixing platform and program names)
Disclaimer: I don't work for Ford, have no inside confidential information and wouldn't share it if I did. I'm just a member of the press, long-time Ford watcher and Mustang owner. We won't know anything for sure until we start to see mules and prototypes, and press releases from Ford.
But in the S650, since it does indeed appear to be an adaptation of S550, the battery could well go in the trunk, as it does in the CD4 MKZ/Fusion Hybrid. Note that this does not affect the seat location, which is good in CD4 but really lousy anyway in S550. It would take a couple of inches out of the passthru because of the height of the battery pack (but look how thin that pack is in CD6 compared to CD4 and earlier tech).
This CD4 hybrid tech is old tech now, several years old, so the Mustangs battery unit would be smaller. There would also be lines for it's temperature control and the 300-volt electrical lines that are also not shown below. The electric motor would be incorporated into the 10-speed, using the off-the-shelf Hybrid Explorer/Aviator transmission and controller architecture.
Which gas engine would be used is an open question... could be the existing 2.3, Ford's new hybrid 2.5 or maybe even the hybrid V-6 shared with the upcoming F-150 Hybrid. All TBD.
As to the idea of the V-8 AWD hybrid, I find that very very difficult to believe in any variant of this old platform - the hard points have been pretty much fixed from DEW98 all the way to S550 - it would cost too much just for the ROI on a single model. And if you don't think Ford had budget issues before COVID-19 (already having to lay off 12,000 staff), imagine the budget now. Things are going to be different in this new reality and for certain the biggest all-hands push is to get both of the Broncos out (both already delayed) since each will be far more strategic than the Mustang - and higher volume and much better margin too.The Mustang Hybrid makes a strategic statement, too, but's hardly high volume - and industry analysts won't be all over Ford if it's late (unlike the Mach-E, which if it doesn't go into production this year - and do so issue-free - will severely impact Ford's image which is already in pretty bad shape).
(yea, I know I am mixing platform and program names)
Disclaimer: I don't work for Ford, have no inside confidential information and wouldn't share it if I did. I'm just a member of the press, long-time Ford watcher and Mustang owner. We won't know anything for sure until we start to see mules and prototypes, and press releases from Ford.
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drjeff
Well-Known Member
Ford management has said that the next gen is in very early development and there is no firm timeline for the change. 2025 at earliest.
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