S550 may be eliminated sooner rather then later...

BlueCollarDaily

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Are you talking about all Dodge performance vehicles or just the Challeger? If its the former it’s apples and oranges. If it’s the latter it’s not true. Mustang outsells them both.
I've read several articles where challenger/charger has been outselling mustang by a wide margin now surprised me too....





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BlueCollarDaily

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Are you talking about all Dodge performance vehicles or just the Challeger? If its the former it’s apples and oranges. If it’s the latter it’s not true. Mustang outsells them both.
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/s550-may-be-eliminated-sooner-rather-then-later.151598/

Late 2019...and thats just challenger add in the sister car which has all the same choices from V6, RT, Scat Pack, Hellcat, Hellcat Redeye and Widebodies....

They are showing the world there is ABSOLUTELY a market for American Muscle...

It wasn't meant that they are better or outsell Mustang ect but that there is a sizeable demand for big power American V8s....

Now if Ford goes to electric only dont give me the bullshit that the customer don't want it, the government may want it, there may even be more money in it but its not because the customer wants it.....because that Challenger boat is OLD and selling well....they never had to go to 0% 84 either during Covid19...a fact I literally brought to their corporate offices...

I know my car is worth more now than it was 6 months ago, but Ford was giving Mustangs away back then....Dodge was adding ADM for even their 50th anniversary haha....

Its not a Ford vs Dodge its a V8 vs electric thread I thought, and they are growing
 

SVO MkII

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Unfortunately EV's are not being driven by the market, they are being driven by politics.
Bingo! The automobile didn't need govt incentives to replace the horse. Similarly, internal combustion engines didn't need govt incentives to beat steam power.

When electric cars become economically viable, everyone will be buying them. Right now they are toys for wealthy people, or objects of virtue signaling for the "woke" crowd.
 

OX1

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When I was weighing what to get it was between the Mustang GT or a Tesla model 3. This was my first purchase new and what tipped the scale was the realization that the Mustang would most likely be the last and only gas vehicle I will ever buy.

Fuck the future, 16 year old me would be so proud of me now!

Plus the range and charging issues still abound.
Serious question. What does it cost for a model 3 to trap 130? Mine's not as S550, but I just went 10.86 @ 130 for a total of:

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MUSTANG GT/ATCO/27 OCT 2020/20201027_175733a.jpg

305/35-18 MT STREET S/S DR--$629.90
AMR -18X10 and 18X8 RIMS ---$559.96 (used stock 235's up front)
UPR X-pipe------------------------$259.46
Roush Stg 3 TVS------------------$6199.99
SCT tuner and VMP tune---------$712.64
Octane boost----------------------$59.98
Roush upper control arm---------$253.95
Roush alum lower control arms---$200.00
Lightweight battery/terminals-----$120.25

Total---------------------------------$8996.13

Free stuff-------
Removed spare/jack/trunk carpet
Homemade rear seat delete (cardboard and some black fabric)
Removed mats

Plus car(new)

14 GT (auto as only option)-------- $27, 529

Total--------------------------------- $36.525.13

Yes, an AWD 3 would rip me a new one out of the hole on the street, but even with the quick accel, you don't get that rush (or sounds) from the higher speed you get on the cheap, from a base coyote stang GT/auto with a blower.
 

Ebm

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https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/s550-may-be-eliminated-sooner-rather-then-later.151598/

Late 2019...and thats just challenger add in the sister car which has all the same choices from V6, RT, Scat Pack, Hellcat, Hellcat Redeye and Widebodies....

They are showing the world there is ABSOLUTELY a market for American Muscle...

It wasn't meant that they are better or outsell Mustang ect but that there is a sizeable demand for big power American V8s....

Now if Ford goes to electric only dont give me the bullshit that the customer don't want it, the government may want it, there may even be more money in it but its not because the customer wants it.....because that Challenger boat is OLD and selling well....they never had to go to 0% 84 either during Covid19...a fact I literally brought to their corporate offices...

I know my car is worth more now than it was 6 months ago, but Ford was giving Mustangs away back then....Dodge was adding ADM for even their 50th anniversary haha....

Its not a Ford vs Dodge its a V8 vs electric thread I thought, and they are growing
You have any proof of that claim? I'm guessing you don't because it isn't true. Going back to 2008 until present day, there hasn't been a SINGLE YEAR that the Challenger outsold the Mustang. Most months it wasn't even close.



Dodge
Challenger
2016
Dodge
Challenger
2017
Dodge
Challenger
2018
Dodge
Challenger
2019
Dodge
Challenger
2020
January5.0853.3933.4053.230
February5.5856.1076.0933.639
March5.3696.2258.1506.56212.138
April6.4126.5915.8924.422
May6.6776.9897.0055.748
June5.4796.6056.8225.0679.880
July5.6195.3334.837
August5.2626.2534.647
September5.6984.7805.46218.03116.332
October4.1273.8935.225
November3.9083.8605.022
December5.2574.5084.15614.298



Dodge
Challenger
201960.997
201866.716
201764.537
201664.478
201566.365
201451.611
201351.462
201243.119
201139.534
201036.791
200925.852
200817.423



Ford
Mustang
2016
Ford
Mustang
2017
Ford
Mustang
2018
Ford
Mustang
2019
Ford
Mustang
2020
January7.5805.0464.7325.420
February9.9938.2985.8004.025
March12.5639.1208.6327.47218.069
April12.7268.0637.1258.020
May10.3277.8958.7397.266
June9.7766.1867.4006.33915.717
July9.5656.2065.934
August8.2995.5357.487
September6.4295.8475.77016.82313.851
October5.4145.2364.9244.399
November6.1966.7204.9074.119
December7.0647.7144.39217.124



Ford
Mustang
201972.489
201875.842
201781.866
2016105.932
2015122.439
201482.635
201377.186
201282.995
201170.438
201073.716
200966.623
200891.251
 

Littleredd

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Serious question. What does it cost for a model 3 to trap 130? Mine's not as S550, but I just went 10.86 @ 130 for a total of:

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MUSTANG GT/ATCO/27 OCT 2020/20201027_175733a.jpg

305/35-18 MT STREET S/S DR--$629.90
AMR -18X10 and 18X8 RIMS ---$559.96 (used stock 235's up front)
UPR X-pipe------------------------$259.46
Roush Stg 3 TVS------------------$6199.99
SCT tuner and VMP tune---------$712.64
Octane boost----------------------$59.98
Roush upper control arm---------$253.95
Roush alum lower control arms---$200.00
Lightweight battery/terminals-----$120.25

Total---------------------------------$8996.13

Free stuff-------
Removed spare/jack/trunk carpet
Homemade rear seat delete (cardboard and some black fabric)
Removed mats

Plus car(new)

14 GT (auto as only option)-------- $27, 529

Total--------------------------------- $36.525.13

Yes, an AWD 3 would rip me a new one out of the hole on the street, but even with the quick accel, you don't get that rush (or sounds) from the higher speed you get on the cheap, from a base coyote stang GT/auto with a blower.
Fuck if I know, but my 2020 GT PP2 cost a lot more than that and doesn't trap 130, so that is a pointless comparison. If all you give a shit about is drag racing I don't think a single person would be interested in arguing against you.

How much would it cost for your mustang to drive itself on the freeway and get 200 mpg (or whatever the hell the rating is for a Tesla model 3...)?

They are both very dynamic vehicles that can do a lot of things. Not the same things, but still a lot of things.
 

jacknifetoaswan

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Do people fast charge at their house? No. They fast charge when taking long trips. Also you would only fast charge 60% of the battery capacity.

Just because you are not smart enough to figure out how to do something doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/11/20201120-gmev.html
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33435923/toyota-solid-state-battery-2025/
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a31409442/samsung-solid-state-battery-revealed/

I don’t like the thought of eletric but the batteries are coming to support them. If I would have told you in 1995 that in 15 years everyone would have the internet in their pocket you would have made some comment about it taking to long for the modem too connect.
Agree 100% with you. I won't give up my Mustang, but would I drop my wife's Benz for a Model 3? Yup, and I'm trying to convince her.

For our most likely long distance drive, which would be Charleston, SC to the Scranton, PA area, the distance is about 760 miles. At 32 MPG in the Benz, that's about 24 gallons of premium (93 octane) fuel. At $3/gallon, that's $72, one way. Tesla's website has a route calculator that allows you to enter a starting point and a destination, and it will automatically calculate the optimal route that places Superchargers along it, and even tells you how long you'll need to spend at each.

For me, a gas stop isn't 5 minutes, it's at least 20, sometimes 30, as I have to get the kid to the bathroom, the wife needs to go, we need to get food and drinks, and I need to walk the dog. Tesla's website has me stopping in Fayetteville, NC, for 15 minutes, Rocky Mount, NC, for 35 minutes, Glen Allen, VA, for 50 minutes, and Gettysburg, PA, for 40 minutes.

If I look at the route, the Fayetteville stop is right near a bunch of places where I can use the head, get snacks and drinks, and stretch the legs. It's also 3 hours from my house, so that's a perfect time to stop. Rocky Mount is a 90 minutes from Fayetteville, and the Supercharger location is right near an Outback Steakhouse, so I can stop to have lunch. If I left my house at, say 7:30 AM, that's right about noon. Glen Allen, VA is 2 hours from there. Super, that's a long charge, but there are various shopping centers there. I can putz around for a little bit and get the charge in. Now, it's about 4 PM. Gettysburg is about 3 hours from there, so by the time I'm out of Gettysburg, it's about 8 PM. Maybe I stay the night in Gettysburg, which would be fine with me. The next morning, I get up and drive the last three hours, or I continue on. I get to my dad's house at about 11 PM. Yeah, it's a long day, but it's basically 14 hours vs 12 hours, and I would have made several of those stops, anyway.

The most likely vehicle for us to buy is the Model 3, which can accept charging at 150 kW, and at 25 cents per kW, it's a lot cheaper to charge than it is to buy gas. With the Benz, I'd need to stop for gas once, but I'm making other stops to biology's sake. I have no problem plugging in during that time.

Oh, and I'm all for controlling the vehicle yourself, but I generally have to drive 100% of the time, because my wife has issues seeing safely at night while driving. With the autonomous driving features of the Tesla, my wife can now handle some of that time, and I can veg out for an hour or two.

JR
 

BlueCollarDaily

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You have any proof of that claim? I'm guessing you don't because it isn't true. Going back to 2008 until present day, there hasn't been a SINGLE YEAR that the Challenger outsold the Mustang. Most months it wasn't even close.



Dodge
Challenger
2016
Dodge
Challenger
2017
Dodge
Challenger
2018
Dodge
Challenger
2019
Dodge
Challenger
2020
January5.0853.3933.4053.230
February5.5856.1076.0933.639
March5.3696.2258.1506.56212.138
April6.4126.5915.8924.422
May6.6776.9897.0055.748
June5.4796.6056.8225.0679.880
July5.6195.3334.837
August5.2626.2534.647
September5.6984.7805.46218.03116.332
October4.1273.8935.225
November3.9083.8605.022
December5.2574.5084.15614.298




Dodge
Challenger
201960.997
201866.716
201764.537
201664.478
201566.365
201451.611
201351.462
201243.119
201139.534
201036.791
200925.852
200817.423




Ford
Mustang
2016
Ford
Mustang
2017
Ford
Mustang
2018
Ford
Mustang
2019
Ford
Mustang
2020
January7.5805.0464.7325.420
February9.9938.2985.8004.025
March12.5639.1208.6327.47218.069
April12.7268.0637.1258.020
May10.3277.8958.7397.266
June9.7766.1867.4006.33915.717
July9.5656.2065.934
August8.2995.5357.487
September6.4295.8475.77016.82313.851
October5.4145.2364.9244.399
November6.1966.7204.9074.119
December7.0647.7144.39217.124




Ford
Mustang
201972.489
201875.842
201781.866
2016105.932
2015122.439
201482.635
201377.186
201282.995
201170.438
201073.716
200966.623
200891.251
Are you being purposely obtuse or didn't read the article where quarter 3 2019 last of the normal year it DID outsell mustang and has been gaining....BUT they have TWO performance widebody cars that sell almost equally well and use the same 485,717,797 hp engine, trans, different and probably axles LOL...together id guess its not even CLOSE.....
But I SAID it wasn't about Challenger outselling Mustang which it did Q3 2019...but that there IS demand as proved by an obviously 12 year old chassis gaining ground and selling well with American V8s......
SO if Ford forces us to Electric they can't PRETEND it's what the car market wanted.....
 

shogun32

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With the Benz, I'd need to stop for gas once, but I'm making other stops to biology's sake. I have no problem plugging in during that time.
you're assuming chargers will be available when you roll up. Now in late 2020 I'd say you'll be plenty lucky. (just stay out of Glen Allen VA!! just kidding) But what happens when there isn't a charger and you have to wait 30min for one to become avail?

I drove HIlton Head to DC in 7.5hrs with 1 stop long enough to hit the head, splash 25gal of 93 at $2.50 into the tank and wait an eternity for a friggin' sandwich. But admittedly in a F150, no wife, no kids, no dogs.
 

Adamone92

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Are you being purposely obtuse or didn't read the article where quarter 3 2019 last of the normal year it DID outsell mustang and has been gaining....BUT they have TWO performance widebody cars that sell almost equally well and use the same 485,717,797 hp engine, trans, different and probably axles LOL...together id guess its not even CLOSE.....
But I SAID it wasn't about Challenger outselling Mustang which it did Q3 2019...but that there IS demand as proved by an obviously 12 year old chassis gaining ground and selling well with American V8s......
SO if Ford forces us to Electric they can't PRETEND it's what the car market wanted.....
Every other article ive seen has shown the mustang vastly outselling the challenger, even in 2019 and 2020. More mustangs sold for the entire year than the challenger, yearly is what should matter, Not a quarter.

Half of the people buying a charger arent in the mustang market, its a 4 door first and foremost. Combining charger and challenger sells vs mustang is silly. Might as well include the f150 too at that point since it uses a coyote engine. Lol
 

jacknifetoaswan

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you're assuming chargers will be available when you roll up. Now in late 2020 I'd say you'll be plenty lucky. (just stay out of Glen Allen VA!! just kidding) But what happens when there isn't a charger and you have to wait 30min for one to become avail?

I drove HIlton Head to DC in 7.5hrs with 1 stop long enough to hit the head, splash 25gal of 93 at $2.50 into the tank and wait an eternity for a friggin' sandwich. But admittedly in a F150, no wife, no kids, no dogs.
You're absolutely right about availability. From what I can see, there are 16 or more chargers in various locations. There will definitely be a wait on crazy busy weekends, like Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc, but Tesla is a pretty smart company. If they see that the 16 chargers in a location are occupied more than some pre-determined amount, they're going to lease space for more. If there's demand for 30, they'll have 30, or they'll have another site that's within a common geographical area.

I once made a Charleston to Central New Jersey run, which is almost exactly 750 miles, and 11 hours, via Google Maps, in about 12 hours, as it was just me, the dog, and a rental car that got good mileage. I drove overnight, had already fed the dog, and kept stops to a minimum - gas and go. I pissed in Gatorade bottles and ate only what I was carrying with me. Still, I wouldn't recommend.

All I'm saying is that people make a big deal out of charging on long trips, and unless you're driving with another adult that has a bladder of steel, and you can deal with being tired and uncomfortable, you're making stops every 3 hours, anyway.

JR
 

Littleredd

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Are you being purposely obtuse or didn't read the article where quarter 3 2019 last of the normal year it DID outsell mustang and has been gaining....BUT they have TWO performance widebody cars that sell almost equally well and use the same 485,717,797 hp engine, trans, different and probably axles LOL...together id guess its not even CLOSE.....
But I SAID it wasn't about Challenger outselling Mustang which it did Q3 2019...but that there IS demand as proved by an obviously 12 year old chassis gaining ground and selling well with American V8s......
SO if Ford forces us to Electric they can't PRETEND it's what the car market wanted.....
There is a market for American Muscle, but I promise you that in a few years, albeit with more charging stations and better batteries (both are near term propositions), an all electric Mustang coupe at today's prices (all across the range) would sell gang busters too!

In 15-20 years this discussion will be mute, they won't be selling new gas cars anymore. Every auto maker is, right now, pouring billions into electric vehicle development.
 

K4fxd

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Looks like Ford is putting MDS on the coyote, that tells me it will be around for several more years. Hopefully we will get a twin turbo version for the mustang.
 

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Bingo! The automobile didn't need govt incentives to replace the horse. Similarly, internal combustion engines didn't need govt incentives to beat steam power.
Exactly how many government incentives were available in the first part of the 20th century? Answer. None. So your hypothesis really doesn't hold any water. Our current Federal government spends billions in subsidies and incentives. Electric power is just one of thousands.

When electric cars become economically viable, everyone will be buying them. Right now they are toys for wealthy people, or objects of virtue signaling for the "woke" crowd.
They are getting closer and closer everyday. And not just for the wealthy and woke. I'm interested in see what the Mach-E does. Forget the whole Mustang thing, I just want to see if it sells.
 

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