Running 19x9.5's Up Front

[MAP]

Hello,

I've recently purchased a 2018 PP1 GT and had a couple questions regarding the wheel/tire setup.

Firstly, when I went to get tires balanced, I discovered that I had 3 Michelin AS3 tires, and one of my rears is a MP4S? Anyone know if it's dangerous having different tires? They are the same size on the rears, but they're different tires both from Michelin. Seemed odd to me, but I didn't catch it before purchase to raise an eyebrow.

Second, I understand that it is a staggered setup. I was told my rears would wear out twice as fast as the fronts because of this. Looking down the road, it seems like it will be much more expensive to run staggered and not just square the setup. Is there any reason I cannot pick up a set of PP1 wheels from someone on the site and run those up front? I was looking at the SVE SP2's for a 19x10 squared setup, and it seems those don't require spacers. Can I assume the same situation (No spacers) if I grab a pair of PP1 wheels and throw them up front to match the rears? Going aftermarket for the 19x10's seems a bit expensive, if grabbing a set of wheels for $500 and slapping some tires on them to match will accomplish the same thing.

If spacers are required, are they safe? I tried asking Discount Tire about it, and they said they do not recommend spacers on any vehicle, and they won't install wheels on a vehicle with spacers... Is there a reason for this that someone would know? Where could I get these wheels/tires put on if I do need spacers?

Thanks for your time!

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[spaz mk will]

Here’s a similar thread. There are many others If you search around. https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/pp1-wheel-spacers.156673/unread

I would suggest running the same tire compound all around, otherwise the car can be unpredictable in off-nominal conditions.
A Square setup should last longer since you can rotate, and yes staggered will generally wear faster since you can’t.

The rear 9.5 PP wheels will require a 20 or 25mm front spacer to work. CJ Pony Parts has a video installing a pair; I have those generic spacers on my car when I have my OEM 8.5s on for winter. Getting hubcentric spacers that fit properly are in general safe, the non hubcentric ones can cause issues or running a slip on spacer that’s too big for OEM length wheel stud. The 20 or 25 you would need for these have their own stud on them. Spacers can cause accelerated wear of bearings and other suspension components since they shift the load outboard (generically speaking, I’m an EE not ME).

As for DT not working on them, I’m not surprised from a liability perspective. I installed them myself and swap to my 19x10 myself also. You have to use the brakes and another person (or a rod on the pedal) to install them.

All that said, many others here run spacers to get a 9.5 square out of the PP wheels. It’s cheap emu and effective. People are usually selling PP wheels in the marketplace area. SVE 19x10 are a great and cheap way to get a wide, square, and most importantly much lighter set of wheels vs the PP wheels.

 

[Schwerin]

Here’s a similar thread. There are many others If you search around. https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/pp1-wheel-spacers.156673/unread

I would suggest running the same tire compound all around, otherwise the car can be unpredictable in off-nominal conditions.
A Square setup should last longer since you can rotate, and yes staggered will generally wear faster since you can’t.

The rear 9.5 PP wheels will require a 20 or 25mm front spacer to work. CJ Pony Parts has a video installing a pair; I have those generic spacers on my car when I have my OEM 8.5s on for winter. Getting hubcentric spacers that fit properly are in general safe, the non hubcentric ones can cause issues or running a slip on spacer that’s too big for OEM length wheel stud. The 20 or 25 you would need for these have their own stud on them. Spacers can cause accelerated wear of bearings and other suspension components since they shift the load outboard (generically speaking, I’m an EE not ME).

As for DT not working on them, I’m not surprised from a liability perspective. I installed them myself and swap to my 19x10 myself also. You have to use the brakes and another person (or a rod on the pedal) to install them.

All that said, many others here run spacers to get a 9.5 square out of the PP wheels. It’s cheap emu and effective. People are usually selling PP wheels in the marketplace area. SVE 19x10 are a great and cheap way to get a wide, square, and most importantly much lighter set of wheels vs the PP wheels.

Are you sure you NEED them? I've posted similar question and was told you DIDNT need spacers for the front.

 

[spaz mk will]

Are you sure you NEED them? I've posted similar question and was told you DIDNT need spacers for the front.

Not having a PP or those wheels, I’m going purely from memory on other threads I’ve read over the years. I’m fairly certain you need them in order to clear the caliper from the wheel face since the rear offset is high. I’m sure some other members will chime in soon.

 

[MAP]

Here’s a similar thread. There are many others If you search around. https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/pp1-wheel-spacers.156673/unread

I would suggest running the same tire compound all around, otherwise the car can be unpredictable in off-nominal conditions.
A Square setup should last longer since you can rotate, and yes staggered will generally wear faster since you can’t.

The rear 9.5 PP wheels will require a 20 or 25mm front spacer to work. CJ Pony Parts has a video installing a pair; I have those generic spacers on my car when I have my OEM 8.5s on for winter. Getting hubcentric spacers that fit properly are in general safe, the non hubcentric ones can cause issues or running a slip on spacer that’s too big for OEM length wheel stud. The 20 or 25 you would need for these have their own stud on them. Spacers can cause accelerated wear of bearings and other suspension components since they shift the load outboard (generically speaking, I’m an EE not ME).

As for DT not working on them, I’m not surprised from a liability perspective. I installed them myself and swap to my 19x10 myself also. You have to use the brakes and another person (or a rod on the pedal) to install them.

All that said, many others here run spacers to get a 9.5 square out of the PP wheels. It’s cheap emu and effective. People are usually selling PP wheels in the marketplace area. SVE 19x10 are a great and cheap way to get a wide, square, and most importantly much lighter set of wheels vs the PP wheels.

Thank you for the response. I'm a little new to mustang modifying, so sorry if that was a silly question. I think I'm going to go with SP2 and call it a day so spacers aren't necessary. It seems that even with a higher price point than a few take off wheels, I basically recoup the cost of the wheels in 1 tire replacement (2 * $350 ish for a set of rears now... Per DT. Not sure if there's better prices elsewhere, just have always gone there in past) if I just go squared and sell my PP1 wheels.

Thank you for your time and have a great day!

 

[TopJimmyCooks]

Hello,

I've recently purchased a 2018 PP1 GT and had a couple questions regarding the wheel/tire setup.

Firstly, when I went to get tires balanced, I discovered that I had 3 Michelin AS3 tires, and one of my rears is a MP4S? Anyone know if it's dangerous having different tires? They are the same size on the rears, but they're different tires both from Michelin. Seemed odd to me, but I didn't catch it before purchase to raise an eyebrow.

Second, I understand that it is a staggered setup. I was told my rears would wear out twice as fast as the fronts because of this. Looking down the road, it seems like it will be much more expensive to run staggered and not just square the setup. Is there any reason I cannot pick up a set of PP1 wheels from someone on the site and run those up front? I was looking at the SVE SP2's for a 19x10 squared setup, and it seems those don't require spacers. Can I assume the same situation (No spacers) if I grab a pair of PP1 wheels and throw them up front to match the rears? Going aftermarket for the 19x10's seems a bit expensive, if grabbing a set of wheels for $500 and slapping some tires on them to match will accomplish the same thing.

If spacers are required, are they safe? I tried asking Discount Tire about it, and they said they do not recommend spacers on any vehicle, and they won't install wheels on a vehicle with spacers... Is there a reason for this that someone would know? Where could I get these wheels/tires put on if I do need spacers?

Thanks for your time!

Hey Matt,
What will you be doing with the car? Cruising, drag, road track, grocery-getter? That will help the Forum help you.

If you want to go square and still rotate the tires you will probably need spacers in front since the offsets are usually different front/rear. OP Performance spacers are good. Your local tire shop might not endorse them for liability reasons only. The OPs are fine. Find a mechanic who will work with you.

I hear everyone talk how important a square setup is so they can rotate, but IMO this discussion is over-hyped. The difference is replacing all tires at once or half your tires twice as often (for normal street driving). Sounds like a wash to me. Track might be different. But if you buy a new set of wheels to rotate...that might be more expensive than the savings of rotating. Just a thought and will undoubtedly hijack the discussion thread

Check this out for some advice on fitment:
https://support.apexraceparts.com/h...5483093-S550-Mustang-Wheel-Tire-Fitment-Guide

 

[spaz mk will]

Thank you for the response. I'm a little new to mustang modifying, so sorry if that was a silly question. I think I'm going to go with SP2 and call it a day so spacers aren't necessary. It seems that even with a higher price point than a few take off wheels, I basically recoup the cost of the wheels in 1 tire replacement (2 * $350 ish for a set of rears now... Per DT. Not sure if there's better prices elsewhere, just have always gone there in past) if I just go squared and sell my PP1 wheels.

Thank you for your time and have a great day!

Not a silly question, we only learn if we’re willing The SP2 is a great choice, I went X500 because I wanted silver and SP2 in graphite I find to be too dark. For tires, I cross shopped DT, tire rack, and discount tire direct (like tire rack but a DT version, they had better pricing than DT). I had DT install for their $88 flat fee

 

[MAP]

Hey Matt,
What will you be doing with the car? Cruising, drag, road track, grocery-getter? That will help the Forum help you.

If you want to go square and still rotate the tires you will probably need spacers in front since the offsets are usually different front/rear. OP Performance spacers are good. Your local tire shop might not endorse them for liability reasons only. The OPs are fine. Find a mechanic who will work with you.

I hear everyone talk how important a square setup is so they can rotate, but IMO this discussion is over-hyped. The difference is replacing all tires at once or half your tires twice as often (for normal street driving). Sounds like a wash to me. Track might be different. But if you buy a new set of wheels to rotate...that might be more expensive than the savings of rotating. Just a thought and will undoubtedly hijack the discussion thread

Check this out for some advice on fitment:
https://support.apexraceparts.com/h...5483093-S550-Mustang-Wheel-Tire-Fitment-Guide

Hi James,

The car will very rarely see a track day (At least until I get a little more comfortable with it. went from a '07 corolla to a '18 GT so it's got a bit of a learning curve!).

Currently it's a little bit of an overpowered grocery getter, and some more spirited driving in some areas. I'm not ever going to be supercharging or anything of that nature (Again, at least for a while, if ever) so that's really not my concern.

I think I'm more looking to:

1. Be able to rotate my tires (interested to hear some replies regarding how fast the rears actually wear as opposed to the fronts on the PP1 wheels).
2. Be able to put all the power on the pavement. Currently, I find that I'm breaking traction with ease, even at the 19x9.5's. I was hopeful that increasing the width might help, even if just a slight amount. I'd landed on the SP2's because of the 19x10 squared setup, and also the slightly larger width.
3. I'm thinking suspension may help with my 2nd point, but this isn't the right thread for it, I don't think. I figured I'd just look into some Steeda kits, since they seem to be a really big name, from what I could tell.

 

[TopJimmyCooks]

Hi James,

The car will very rarely see a track day (At least until I get a little more comfortable with it. went from a '07 corolla to a '18 GT so it's got a bit of a learning curve!).

Currently it's a little bit of an overpowered grocery getter, and some more spirited driving in some areas. I'm not ever going to be supercharging or anything of that nature (Again, at least for a while, if ever) so that's really not my concern.

I think I'm more looking to:

1. Be able to rotate my tires (interested to hear some replies regarding how fast the rears actually wear as opposed to the fronts on the PP1 wheels).
2. Be able to put all the power on the pavement. Currently, I find that I'm breaking traction with ease, even at the 19x9.5's. I was hopeful that increasing the width might help, even if just a slight amount. I'd landed on the SP2's because of the 19x10 setup, and also the slightly larger width.
3. I'm thinking suspension may help with my 2nd point, but this isn't the right thread for it, I don't think. I figured I'd just look into some Steeda kits, since they seem to be a really big name, from what I could tell.

Tire wear rate will depend on the tire, obviously. My car came with the Pirelli P-Zeroes (crap tires, BTW). Always broke loose. And the rears were shot after 11k miles....no burnouts or track time. The fronts looked brand new. I switched to A/S3+, loved them. Did not get wheel hop like I did with the PZ’s. Sold them with my OEM PP wheels because once I went wider (10”f, 11”r), could not stand the look of the 9/9.5 without spacers. I’m still staggered, running Mich Pilot Super Sports and they are wearing at an even rate. 275/35/19f, 305/35/19r, no spacers. The have a few track events on them as well.
The key to your situation is understanding the wheel’s offsets in front. That will determine if you need spacers (which, then, means longer studs which means new probably open-face lugs, which means you need to make sure your wheels will take them).
The 4s tires are great. If you are breaking loose, try replacing the A/S3+’s with all 4Ss. Talk to the folks at Tire Rack. They’re pretty good.

 

[MAP]

Tire wear rate will depend on the tire, obviously. My car came with the Pirelli P-Zeroes (crap tires, BTW). Always broke loose. And the rears were shot after 11k miles....no burnouts or track time. The fronts looked brand new. I switched to A/S3+, loved them. Did not get wheel hop like I did with the PZ’s. Sold them with my OEM PP wheels because once I went wider (10”f, 11”r), could not stand the look of the 9/9.5 without spacers. I’m still staggered, running Mich Pilot Super Sports and they are wearing at an even rate. 275/35/19f, 305/35/19r, no spacers. The have a few track events on them as well.
The key to your situation is understanding the wheel’s offsets in front. That will determine if you need spacers (which, then, means longer studs which means new probably open-face lugs, which means you need to make sure your wheels will take them).
The 4s tires are great. If you are breaking loose, try replacing the A/S3+’s with all 4Ss. Talk to the folks at Tire Rack. They’re pretty good.

Right on. I'll do some more digging before I pull the trigger on new wheels then, if you're saying staggered doesn't appear to be wearing too much faster. I won't be drag racing or anything harsh that would tear up those wheels too much, I wouldn't think. If I can save the money and just get a new set of tires instead of wheels, to accomplish the same goal, maybe that's the way to go first.

Thanks for your time!

 

[CoolRod]

Here’s a similar thread. There are many others If you search around. https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/pp1-wheel-spacers.156673/unread

I would suggest running the same tire compound all around, otherwise the car can be unpredictable in off-nominal conditions.
A Square setup should last longer since you can rotate, and yes staggered will generally wear faster since you can’t.

The rear 9.5 PP wheels will require a 20 or 25mm front spacer to work. CJ Pony Parts has a video installing a pair; I have those generic spacers on my car when I have my OEM 8.5s on for winter. Getting hubcentric spacers that fit properly are in general safe, the non hubcentric ones can cause issues or running a slip on spacer that’s too big for OEM length wheel stud. The 20 or 25 you would need for these have their own stud on them. Spacers can cause accelerated wear of bearings and other suspension components since they shift the load outboard (generically speaking, I’m an EE not ME).

As for DT not working on them, I’m not surprised from a liability perspective. I installed them myself and swap to my 19x10 myself also. You have to use the brakes and another person (or a rod on the pedal) to install them.

All that said, many others here run spacers to get a 9.5 square out of the PP wheels. It’s cheap emu and effective. People are usually selling PP wheels in the marketplace area. SVE 19x10 are a great and cheap way to get a wide, square, and most importantly much lighter set of wheels vs the PP wheels.

The part about the 20 or 25 mm spacers is incorrect. You only need a 5mm spacer to mount the rear 19x9.5 PP1 wheel on the front. I've done this successfully on both my 2015 and 2018. It allows you to rotate the tires to extend their life. The difficult part is finding somebody who is willing to only sell the rear wheels and not all 4. You don't need longer studs to run a 5mm spacer.
The SVE SP2 wheels are also a great alternative. I have a set that I use for autoX. They are about 8lbs lighter than the factory PP1 wheels and the difference is noticeable. You could always sell your PP1 wheels to offset the cost of the SVE wheels.
As for the mismatched tires, at minimum you should make sure that each axle matches. It's ok that front/rear don't match, though ideally you want all 4 to match.

 

[Schwerin]

The part about the 20 or 25 mm spacers is incorrect. You only need a 5mm spacer to mount the rear 19x9.5 PP1 wheel on the front. I've done this successfully on both my 2015 and 2018. It allows you to rotate the tires to extend their life. The difficult part is finding somebody who is willing to only sell the rear wheels and not all 4. You don't need longer studs to run a 5mm spacer.
The SVE SP2 wheels are also a great alternative. I have a set that I use for autoX. They are about 8lbs lighter than the factory PP1 wheels and the difference is noticeable. You could always sell your PP1 wheels to offset the cost of the SVE wheels.
As for the mismatched tires, at minimum you should make sure that each axle matches. It's ok that front/rear don't match, though ideally you want all 4 to match.

Which 5mm did you use? the Eibach ones I found say 94-14.

 

[CoolRod]

I bought my wheel spacers from Maximum Motorsports. Though now I look at their site and they also list them for 79-14. So not sure if they changed or not, but make sure the ones you buy are hubcentric for the S550's which would be 70.3 mm hubs.

https://www.maximummotorsports.com/14-thick-wheel-spacers-5-Lug-pair-1979-2014-Mustang-P574.aspx

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