Rumor: S650 Mustang 4-Door Sedan Will Debut in 2022 with 3 Engine Options

[Rocketman]

theres been talk of 4-door mustangs since 1964. many prototypes over the years. wagons too.

The gas powered muscle car is about to go extinct. Maybe offering a sedan with mustang branding will equal big sales. Which will equal more funding to keep the mustang ahead of the pack.

I doubt we'll see the voodoo come back in anything mustang or otherwise. which is why I'll be keeping mine....

I think Ford spent waay too much money on that engine for it not to make a comeback in some form or fashion. Chevy just brought back the LT4 in the new CT6 Blackwing.

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[Caballus]

You guys really need to stop being so petty about this, because the other option is for Ford to completely kill off the Mustang. It's no secret that they are going all in on electrification so we should take what we can get.

All of this has been argued ad nauseam with Porsche and what they've been doing for the past few decades and they still obviously make great cars.

Essentially, if they make everything from SUV to 2-door sports coupe a Mustang, they will be killing off the Mustang. The SUV is as much a Mustang as the 2-door coupe...because they slapped a horse on the grill?

The comparison to Porsche is one of oranges and tennis balls. Porsche is not model like Mustang. It's a major manufacture (i.e., a make) like Ford, or Chevrolet or BMW or Chrysler.

There are various trims of 911 (all two door); there are Panameras (4-door and now wagon); there are 2 x SUVs, etc.

A 911 SUV or 4-door 911 would strike many as "weird" in the same way a Mustang SUV strikes many as weird.

Completely different than electrification. If that happens, it happens (and it will).

 

[Stonehauler]

Things WILL change. Honestly, if the American manufacturers want to continue to exist in the future, they will have to adapt.
This means hybrids, electrics, and even moving away from coupes if what they sell doesn't work.

Some countries have abandoned the ICE and are looking towards an eventual ban on them. Honestly, the ONLY thing keeping electrics from becoming almost universally accepted in the US market is the charge time and the distance factor. We want vehicles that get a 400 mile range and we want to be able to refill that to drive another 400 and be on the road again in within minutes.

It's not an electric vehicle problem, it's a battery problem. Once they get that fixed, I see a boom in electric vehicle sales. The acceleration and top speeds are there, it will be a better handling vehicle with the center of gravity down lower and more centered front/back. These will honestly be the car to drive in the future and the dinosaurs will be the ones burning the dead dinos.

Honestly, I really hope this is a reality, because it means I can buy a ford. If I had to choose a car right now, it would be a Dodge Charger Scat Pack (widebody) or the BMW M550. And having dealt with the engines in the BMW for the past 8 years, I really don't want another N63 engine, no matter how "improved" it is.

 

[Stonehauler]

Do you think awd will be an option on this car?

hope so. getting to the point where you want AWD to put down the power. It needs to be RWD biased though, not front wheel biased

 

[BEERCHAMP]

I have no problem with the MACH E, damn impressive for today's E cars.
Do I want one, not now, but times are a changin and pretty soon that will be the daily driver and hopefully we can still drive our gas Mustangs for fun for years to come.

 

[I Bleed Ford Blue]

If Ford decides to build a 4 door mustang, I'd welcome it. If it allows ford to keep the coupe/convertible alive, then so be it. I just hope they don't do what they are doing with the 2 door F150. Some of the better more desirable options on the truck are not available in the regular cab, they are reserved for the extended cab and crew cabs. Like heated power fold side mirrors, dual zone climate control, and bucket seats with center console. Regular cab trucks are limited to the 40/20/40 split bench seating only. Imagine the 2 door mustang with the base engine only and no magnaride or active exhaust available, you would have to step up to a 4 door to get those options. That is basically what ford did to the F150

 

[Dominant1]

What about this?

https://ibb.co/k5k9Px7

 

[Mike Pfeifer]

I would buy one if it was awd. I just sold my 2017 Lincoln MKZ 3.0 awd and picked up a 21 BMW M340i xdrive. The list of quick awd sedans is rather short, and I don't want a crossover.

These are incredibly fun cars, but also really expensive. I love driving them around in sport mode and with the trans also in sport - the exhaust is quite chatty this way!

 

[Mike Pfeifer]

Things WILL change. Honestly, if the American manufacturers want to continue to exist in the future, they will have to adapt.
This means hybrids, electrics, and even moving away from coupes if what they sell doesn't work.

Some countries have abandoned the ICE and are looking towards an eventual ban on them. Honestly, the ONLY thing keeping electrics from becoming almost universally accepted in the US market is the charge time and the distance factor. We want vehicles that get a 400 mile range and we want to be able to refill that to drive another 400 and be on the road again in within minutes.

It's not an electric vehicle problem, it's a battery problem. Once they get that fixed, I see a boom in electric vehicle sales. The acceleration and top speeds are there, it will be a better handling vehicle with the center of gravity down lower and more centered front/back. These will honestly be the car to drive in the future and the dinosaurs will be the ones burning the dead dinos.

Honestly, I really hope this is a reality, because it means I can buy a ford. If I had to choose a car right now, it would be a Dodge Charger Scat Pack (widebody) or the BMW M550. And having dealt with the engines in the BMW for the past 8 years, I really don't want another N63 engine, no matter how "improved" it is.

I have not liked any of the ‘N’ generation engines. Not one. The last good engine was the M54, if you ask me. However, the new ‘B’ engines seem to be pretty solid so far - still too new to know for sure tho, but they seem promising.

 

[amk91]

Essentially, if they make everything from SUV to 2-door sports coupe a Mustang, they will be killing off the Mustang. The SUV is as much a Mustang as the 2-door coupe...because they slapped a horse on the grill?

The comparison to Porsche is one of oranges and tennis balls. Porsche is not model like Mustang. It's a major manufacture (i.e., a make) like Ford, or Chevrolet or BMW or Chrysler.

There are various trims of 911 (all two door); there are Panameras (4-door and now wagon); there are 2 x SUVs, etc.

A 911 SUV or 4-door 911 would strike many as "weird" in the same way a Mustang SUV strikes many as weird.

Completely different than electrification. If that happens, it happens (and it will).

If it's the name, I guess it's understandable. Yet, one sees the Range Rover name on vehicles like the FWD-based Evoque. The original was purely body on frame and straight axle. Current Range Rover is unibody, 4WD (RWD-basis).

Looking at how the Panamera almost first came out 15 years earlier in 1994, but was abandoned mid-stage in early 1992 and restarted in 2003, after the VW-based Cayenne paid off, this could work.

Turning Mustang into a sub-brand has both plusses and minuses. It's not black and white at all. Nor do I trust this rumor just yet, as I haven't heard anything about it until now.

Something like that doesn't work very well on D5, that has been based on a 2dr layout since 2004. CD6? Maybe and probably utilizing the stillborn Zephyr program. That would be expensive though, as only the Explorer and Aviator exist on CD6 right now.

This was what Porsche proposed between 1988 and 1991 as a coupe/sedan:

Porsche 989 Proposal (1988)

1990 or '91 989 Proposals Against 1990 Lexus LS 400 and 1995MY 993 911 Mockup

1991 989 Prototype w/Interior

After they canceled the 989 in Jan 1992, they gave a lot of the design cues to the 996 in 1993 (released in 1997-98)

1993-94 996 Design Effort

Porsche 996 911 (1997) vs '91 989 Prototype

1991 989 Prototype vs Current Panamera

Panamera

989

Panamera

989

991.2 & 992 911s

The first Panamera from 2009 was an ugly joke, while it's very clear the current gen car was exactly what Porsche wanted in the late 80s-early 90s with the 989. The perfect 4 door 911, with good design, both sportiness and high tech luxury. Comparing the 911s above, they finally got it right and flopped with the below first generation Panamera.

Dodge did it okay with the Charger on an affordable level, no reason it can't work for the Mustang and a better company behind it. (Dodge is an afterthought to FCA/Stellantis)

Ford came up with this sedan in late 1962 and proposed it on January 7, 1963, BEFORE the world even knew what Mustang was going to be 15 months later. Maybe after 60 years, it's time.

 

[9secondko]

They already made a 4 door (actually 5 with the hatch) mustang. It’s the Mach E. And it’s an SUV.

Real mustang is a 2 door 2+2.

no real market for a 4 door mustang sedan.

 

[Caballus]

If it's the name, I guess it's understandable.

Great pictures!

Yes, the issue is, indeed, the name.

None of the rest of the examples cited are similar: the Panamera is not a 911 sub-model (i.e., it bears a different name). Charger and Challenger have a simple distinguishing feature between them (2-door vs. 4-door), etc. etc.

I get your point about Porsche's history, and am fortunate to have learned a little about the marque's evolution as well: note the dash cam video taken from my previous GT350 while driving past the Porsche museum (slightly dated--terrible audio) and the picture taken during a Sunday drive with some friends along the same Black Forest route Porsche uses to road test Panameras. I believe your Porsche examples reinforce my point.

Ironically, although I've owned a few, a 1st Gen coupe and my previous and current GT350s among them, I'm not a die hard Mustang fan. I am, however, a fan of the historical personality and believe this is an instance where tradition matters. Ford owns the name, but Mustang is an American legend.

Just a humble opinion and friendly discussion about something that may never happen...

 

[sigintel]

...S650 was supposed to enter production 3 months ago as a CD6 car...

Its not good to have engineers wanting to sink their hearts, blood, sweat and tears into design but battling a variable amount of engineering resources.
What S650 could have been vs where it ends up will be an interesting story one day. DEW98lite?
Maybe we will get tighter cycles as EV demand becomes clearer after S650?

I remember sitting in the garage staring at the GT350 front hubs with the splines in them. Was under the car measuring for hours try to reconcile what I had been told. I concluded I would need an extended K up front by at least 6”, and front passenger tunnel/floor board was gonna get cut a bunch. I suspect somewhere there is an 10R80 4x4 mule...

 

[IceGamer]

What about this?

https://ibb.co/k5k9Px7

Sry but for me it doesn't work. Reminds me of a Chrysler 300... And that didn't sell here.
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71gnhS-kxIL._UY560_.jpg

We have enough 4-door cars in Europe and I don't see the Mustang as a V4/V6 hybrid family car... Might work in the US but I would assume that most Europeans or Germans would rather opt for a German brand in that case.

However, if it helps to keep the 2-door V8 alive I'm absolutely ok with it.

 

[sigintel]

As for your recollection, I recall that the DEW98 S197 began development in 1999 with IRS in mind and think that SN95 II (New Edge) pretty much was designed by early 1996 and entered production by October/Nov 1998, so a rudimentary mule back then would almost certainly be S197.

Didn't they switch back to SRA around 2001-ish? Due to the dimensional changes from IRS to SRA, that would've been done before S197 was locked in (some say it in 2001, others say by mid-2002).

There were a bunch of New Edge mules running around in 2002, before the real deal showed in camo in spring 2003.

ohhh yeay. Lol my memory...
I spent time benchmarking E46 vs LS and I cant recall exactly when the LS w rear section cut out showed up (DEWlite?). Ford leaned on us hard to get the LS to compare to a BMW. You can change tire construction, but suspension geometry and bushings are still key.
Rode along some on X5 testing in 1998. 130 mph yaw damping tests with 1/4 turn violent steering inputs on 5 lane wide oval. Before hans devices... Funny, 20 yrs later have an X5M as a daily. Wish Ford would grab a new X6M and use it as benchmark for a TURBO V6/V8 MachE style extended 4 door MachGTX.(yeay even heavier, lol)
Yes Id pay $110k for it.
I already offered X5M use at COTA to a Ford friend, but he says not yet and they sounded busy at Ford and Im assuming also at Rivian.

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